Episode S3E25: Churches - Memories and Mortar

The destructive fire of the historic sanctuary of First Baptist Church, Dallas, started Hal & Vicki thinking about their memories of churches that God used in their lives. This historic church is what God used to launch them into ministry. Perhaps this podcast will jog some thoughts in your heart about the churches that have been a part of your life and how God used them to stir your spiritual growth. Happy listening and growing. If you have a chance, please take an extra few minutes and listen to this song by Emily Ann Roberts, “The Building.” Emily Ann Roberts - The Building (Official Music Video) (youtube.com). As we have thought about church buildings, this song has been very encouraging.

Transcript

Seth Muse: 0:03

Welcome to the finishing wealth podcast where we encourage seasoned believers to find meaningful ways to impact their world for the kingdom of God. Whether you're 65 and up, are not quite there yet, everyone can begin preparing to finish well. Now, here's your host Randy has with the founder of finishing well, ministries, how habecker

Dr Hal Habecker: 0:24

Good afternoon, my name is Howie habecker. And I'm with finishing well ministries. And I'm here today with my wife again, Vicki, we're going to talk about something today that I think is important to any one of us out there. As we age, Vicky and I are both 75. Now, as we age, we reflect on a lot of things in life. And one of the things that I reflect on as a pastor is all the churches that I have been involved in, and then we, Vicki and I and our family have been involved in and all of our lives. And as we share our stories about churches today, I hope that resonates with you, and lead you into thinking about how God has worked in your life with respect to churches that you and I have been a part of you and your family. So Vicki, help us get started in this what moved in your life. And how did we end up with this discussion today?

Vicki Habecker: 1:23

On Friday evening, to last 17 the old historic sanctuary of First Baptist Church Dallas caught on fire for alarms. Now, only three external walls remain everything else is lost. We were not in Dallas, the night that this happened, but we were in Michigan, or Hell's brother's funeral. Our phones started pinging about every two or three minutes, so we knew something wasn't right. And when we learned that it was our beloved sanctuary from First Baptist. We both wept and I personally felt like we had been sucker punched, we had just finished a funeral with all the accompanying grief that comes with a funeral. And now here was more grief. For you listeners. It's not easy to come up with topics for podcasts every week or every other week. Elena toss out some ideas and some of them were okay. But nothing made us go oh, that's a good idea. And to keep podcast interesting and engaging, you have to try out new topics and ideas. So far, nothing had given us the wow factor. Until last night after dinner. Well actually it was a few nights ago after dinner is Kal to drive us to downtown Dallas and see what was left of that beautiful old sanctuary at First Baptist Church. We had to park a few blocks away, walk to an area where we could see the devastation. And as we approached my tears started, sobbed as I tried to take pictures through the wire fence that was keeping us out. But it was also keeping us safe. Lots of instability in what is left standing. And you know how I was thinking that's so true of our lives to in spite of our trust in a sovereign God, when the unexpected comes are often left unstable.

Unknown: 3:34

Does that make sense? Sure it does to me.

Vicki Habecker: 3:37

And with each photo that I took, as you can tell from my voice, more tears came because there was so many memories in that mortar. In fact, that's what I would call this podcast churches, a combo of memories and mortar. But as I was standing there sobbing there was a lady, sweet, beautiful lady down from me. And she saw I was struggling. And she came over and said, Can I give you a hug? Well, that really started the floodgates to sit on our watch on our drive back home. Now you and I started sharing memories of our years down at First Baptist and that building. I know the church is not brick and mortar but there is something can I say almost holy or sacred about the physical house where we worship and learn and grow. So we got home, we set out by the pool, we actually poured a glass of wine and all of a sudden it hit us. This is our podcast. And Lord willing, it's gonna resonate with a lot of you. So, how you start us off, tell us about memories that you have growing up and maybe even the buildings where you learned about Jesus. Okay,

Unknown: 4:54

thanks, Vicki.

Dr Hal Habecker: 4:55

Before I do that, I want to just say a word about churches. Churches as we reflect in the New Testament, there were no church buildings. Paul rented a school of Taranis in Ephesus, where he taught for two years and they gathered at homes. So they didn't have buildings like we have today. But there's a bear in our discussion, churches, our people gathered together, to hear the word and to worship. It doesn't matter where you are. But in the evolution of our world, we began to build buildings. But I just want to remind us all that churches are not buildings, although they represent people to me and to us. But the church is really people and that's important. So here's part of my story, Vicki, the first church I remember as a kid was called the Mount Calvary Church of Elizabeth town. That's right, outside Hershey, Pennsylvania. And it was that church, it was an independent, inter denominational church, and it was that church where I trusted Christ as a six year old kid, I remember it to this day. And interesting that I, my mother said, you know, the next Sunday, we're at church, we should share that your decision with Pastor Hiram LeFevre, that was his name. And I remember the next Sunday, shaking his hand and tell him, thanks for your message last Sunday, because it was his message that move me to trust Christ. And I told him about that. And he gave me a bend over gave me a big hug. And would you believe two weeks later, he died. And then I remember being at his memorial service. And I remember to this day as a six year old kid, where I was sitting in the sanctuary, what songs were sung and a lot of the message that day, so that church represents to me and amazing experience that I had as a kid. And those were my formative years as a kid. Of the next church, we went to, we moved, we moved farms. And we were 2025 miles away, and we went to a little church called Union Gospel tabernacle, which was a military lighthouse, you might say, pastored by a guy by the name of George Atkins, I remember the hunger for the Word I had as a kid there at that church. It was a very simple church, very small sanctuary, a little addition, at three or four Sunday school rooms. very memorable to me. And then I remember George Atkins, who was the pastor there, he felt led to build a new church about five miles away. And it was called the Jonestown Bible Church. And we were there for I'd say, another four years as a kid. Now, I love that church, we were involved in boys brigade as a kid growing up in that church, but something strategic happened to that church. There was a guy by the name of Vernon grounds, who would come every Thanksgiving. And remember, I'm a second or third grader at this church. And Vernon grounds, preached every November, and he impacted my life. I remember as a kid sitting in a front row. Now, roll the clock ahead. 35 years, I'm looking for a place to enroll to take a Doctor of Ministry degree. And you know, the church I or the school I chose. It's the school where Vernon grounds was the president. So from second grade to 35 years later, God brought that man into my life. It was a strategic event. I will always associate that with Jonestown Bible Church. And then that church started a Mission Church closer to where our farm was, we had moved again. And it was a little town called Campbell by Campbelltown Bible Church. I was very involved in youth ministry there, it deepened by faith. My dad served there as an elder, my dad's memorial service was held in that church. It was a sacred place. It's not a church anymore. It's a library. I think. That church built a new church down the road. But that church will always be sacred for me for a whole bunch of reasons, including my dad's memorial service there. That was where our family was involved. Men like Dale and rich Burkholder, who led the junior high and senior high ministry became mentors to me. Then when I was in college, I was involved at Taylor University in a small Methodist Church. I was a youth pastor there for two years. very memorable for me. My sixth church was first Baptist Church, Dallas, and I got to that church by a missionary in Haiti, sharing with me, I should go to Dallas Seminary. And when I got to Dallas Seminary, I was exposed to First Baptist Church, which is where Vicki was, so I want to say a few things about that church, and then I want her to take off. That's where I met her. That's where we were married our kids heads were dedicated there are ministries were dedicated there. And it became a very strategic church in my life. And then of course, I we went to Dallas Bible Church where I was pastor for 22 years. And that's another whole list of memories, we can come back to that. And then we were hunter at hunters, Glen Baptist Church for six years after we left there. And again, up and down experiences, and God led us to that church, and he led us away from it. And today we are at a church called Highland country Fellowship, which is an awesome church. We've been there for almost two years now, a year and a half. And I can tell you a lot about that. But let me back off of my churches. And Vicki, why don't you tell us some of your background and churches until we met together first Baptist?

Vicki Habecker: 10:50

Well, I think the interesting thing, you have gone through a list of the churches you have attended, and you've talked about people, and you've talked about memories, by him and her do say much about the building itself. And when first Baptist sanctuary was destroyed by fire, the fact that the building meant so much that's kind of what I want to focus on right now. I grew up in Dallas, small church, rich Chris Baptist Church, I met Jesus there, that little church didn't have a center, I'll see these are the things I'm remembering about the building. I remember the second verse of softly and tenderly walking down the left, and I'll have that church and in my little seven year old man's I saw Jesus writing my name down in, in his book of life. I don't remember a lot these days, but I remember that like it was just yesterday. I had to laugh. The unspoken motto of that little church was saved them don't come and do it quick. So I trusted Jesus that morning, and I was baptized that evening. I spent several years at that church, I watched my parent, sit and sing in the pews watch my mother teach Sunday school, Vacation Bible School. I sang in the little 20 voice choir often played the piano. Through the years, the attendance at that little church dropped from 200 to 100 to 50. Nowadays, no more. And just recently, that building was torn down. Now that makes me sad, but I didn't weep over Ridgecrest Baptist church building, like I've done of this sanctuary at First Baptist and I'm just just kind of wondering, what's the difference? When I graduated from Baylor, I started attending first Baptist sang in the 200 boys choir got rebaptized met us sweetheart and dedicated are three kids. Listen to you teach a large Sunday school class. And more than once I heard you preach from that beautiful pulpit where the likes of George truant and Debbie a Chris one Billy Graham and other sites taught the world word. And listeners if you've been keeping up with the news about First Baptist, one miracle that has emerged from the fire is that the hand carved pulpit was found in the basement, under several feet of water, but still intact. I just say that's Beauty from Ashes. So what are the memories from that building? Like we've said, we met there when married there. We've made lifelong friends there. We've attended way too many funerals there. You've performed so many weddings there. I still know the assigned number of my red choir robe. I remember the feel of the Red Velvet pew cushions in the nailers. I remember standing at the top of the living Christmas tree seeing you and Ronnie Stevens walk in. And I thought oh gosh, he's cute. I think a week later, we had our first date. But then God called you to start pastoring Dallas Bible Church, we started out talking about buildings. We started out in rented space in a strip shopping center with finally moved into a wonderful church building. So many fond memories, fun brands, but funerals bussing and for 22 years on a youth pastor that plot with authentic biblical teaching grace and compassion. Now we experienced the good, the bad, the ugly at that church until God told you it was time to step back and start finishing well ministry and that church continues to grow. Bless the neighborhood where it's located. How ever tell him this is what this is what I'm dealing with. If that church building were to catch on fire, and burn, like the historic sanctuary at First Baptist, I would be sad, but I wouldn't sob. We started visting when you stepped down and starting finishing well we started visiting another church in Plano and this one was complete with stained glass windows and choir and orchestra and pews and Sunday school classes. And we saw a lot of them The good, bad and ugly in church again. But as I've said, if that building were to be burned or destroyed or vandalized, I don't think I would feel the grief that I'm feeling now over a building. I keep saying the Lord lessen our sadness, but not at the expense of our memory. Please soften our sadness over the sanctuary first bad bits, but not at the expense of memories. I want to remember what God did in me at that building. So the last two years like you said, we've been part of this new church, no stained glass windows, no pews, no hymnbooks just a new place and new friends, and to hear God's word and make new memories. What's the difference in all this? And I hope those of you listening when this is over, will you recall your memories of churches? And please think back on the physical aspects of each building memories and mortar now? Hell is it because it sanctuaries old and we're old? Are we getting more sentimental as we age? What's the connection? I guess in a sense, the church is like the tabernacle, the dwelling place where we make God now we know that God dwells in our hearts and minds. There was something about that tangible when we were standing outside that fence, looking at the devastation, I just wanted to touch a pew, I wanted to feel the red carpet under my feet. I wanted to see the choir chairs. I wanted to just smell the vastness and beauty of that dream. Now it smells like smoke. I want to see, I wanted to see those unbelievable stained glass windows that I took for granted. I want to hear those creaky wooden floors. Remember those in the balcony, grab the hymn book in the pew in France and needed to touch something to feel something tangible. Now that may sound crazy. And I know that's all stuff. It's gone. Is first Baptist going to try to rebuild that sanctuary? They're going to try once again, memories and mortar, the building itself. I think God values both our memories, and the building. So what So what are your memories? You know, I read something the other day that said Your memories are part of your internal biography. So part of my by geography is that sanctuary horse Baptists have cried over events in that building. But until this last week, I've never cried over the building itself. So my biography includes that historic sanctuary, at First Baptist Dallas, and I trust got sovereign hand at that bar was no surprise to him. But there's a lot of people who are grieving over the loss of that building at sanctuary.

Dr Hal Habecker: 18:34

Good thoughts, Ricky, let me a couple of general observations, at least for me, you know, most of my memories from church do not have to do with the building per se. In fact, two of those churches don't even exist. Three of those churches don't even exist as churches anymore. But the memories of those places were profound for me for what God did in my life in those places. But the experience of God working in me is the most important thing. And as we talk about this, I would encourage each of our listeners, think back in your own history of churches, what did God do in your life at those places? Why are they meaningful till even till this day? What did God do there? And as you would try and tell your own kids about your own spiritual history, what would you say about each of these places and what God did there and pass that on? And I think it's an important thing to do. even think about our own kids, Vicki, you know, how do you reflect on those churches and what God did there, and you're telling the spiritual story of your life? You know, I think of it with the Old Testament the temple was built under Solomon, but in less than a century after him, they weren't worshipping idols. and four centuries later, the Babylonians came in and destroyed the temple. Now you can imagine the weeping people had you read the story of Nehemiah where they came back and wanted to rebuild the walls, and they ended up rebuilding the temple as well. But like Solomon said, you know, who is God, he doesn't dwell in a mortar, a brick and mortar as big as those rocks are in Jerusalem on the foundation of the temple. You know, what is important is what God does there in your life, and through the relationships of others. You know, you and I, Vicki have often talked about the people who build into our lives at each of those places, I could go back to every one of those places of worship in my life, and individuals would stand out. And our experience in first Baptist was like that, you know, God melted our lives with other people that continue to shape our lives to this day, I think of Dr. Mrs. Tandy. I mean, I could reel off a bunch of them, and then from Dallas Bible Church, people who have shaped our lives, and God will continue to shape us through those people. So those are the things that stand out the building. And yes, the people who were a part of that, bear very important, what would you add to that? I

Vicki Habecker: 21:18

would say that I totally agree. But I would say there was something about losing the building that reignited us thinking about memories there. So think God uses both Yes, the memories are the main things important. Some, like you said, some of your buildings aren't even there anymore. There was something about losing, physically, that building that caused you in May to, to really go back and start reliving memories. And like I said, Lord, soften our grief, but not at the expense of our memories. Let our memory still be raw in clear and evidence of what God did. But I think losing that tangible building. Does that make sense? I think that's what that's given said today. You haven't seen me cry over something like this in a while?

Dr Hal Habecker: 22:15

I haven't. But as you listen to us, what is it that God does in your life, through your memories of places of worship, where you've been, if your home burns down, you would weep? I mean, you'd want to have gotten stuff out of it. That's really important, if possible, you know, our kids, when they're in California, and fires come, they load in in crates, all the stuff that is valuable, and they leave, you know, and they would weep for their home in a sense, but they got the best stuff out of it. But maybe that's what a church is like a church is like a home a building. And you may get the best stuff out of it. But still, it has an attachment to you for some reason. So think about those things in your own life. And let God use them to tell your story. So now this song, we want to share it's the author of it is Emily Ann Roberts, and she wrote a song called Building, the building the building, but she talks about a building and as I ride my peloton, before, before I had my bike accident, this song would play and I've been thinking about this in my own mind for months, you know, reflecting on your life, the churches and how God used them. So they can I want to encourage you to listen, take time to listen to this song. You want to say anything about it?

Vicki Habecker: 23:43

Yeah, I'm gonna pull out a couple of phrases that I want you to listen to. She says these tattered old red hymn books have caught a tear or two. Because it's hard to sing, just as I am without this Spirit moving you know, the stained glass never saved the soul. And these pews ain't on the roll that's called up yonder. And now the pulpits just a wooden stand. But it's felt the power of Gods and it's just a building. Plain and simple. It's the building with Jesus changed my life. And I love this. I know it won't. You going to read this.

Dr Hal Habecker: 24:35

I know it won't stand here forever. But I'll sure miss it when it's gone. And I'll be forever grateful to call that church, my home. And her by her main line. And all of this is she repeats it several times. I know it's just a building plain and simple. But it's the building where Jesus changed my life. So as you think back on churches in your own experience, how did Jesus use those to change your life and deepen your walk with Him, your marriage, your family, and reflect on that. It's been a fun trip down memory lane and not just memory lane, but just a spiritual heritage lane, and how God use these building blocks to deepen our lives. And that's what we're about, as a ministry to encourage aging people to share the work of God that he has wrought in years in my life to share with younger generations to pour out our lives for them. We are not retired from the mission of encouraging other people to walk closer with Jesus than they ever had before. So the Lord bless you and thanks for being with us today and we'll see you next time

Seth Muse: 25:57

thank you for listening to the finishing Welch podcast. We hope you're encouraged by today's conversation to continue living out your God given purpose. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts or you can find us at finishing well ministries dot O R G slash podcast. And don't forget to follow us on social media at finishing well ministries. We'll see you next time