Episode S4E10: Friendship in Our Aging years

Rewarding friendships in our aging years are wonderful gifts from God. In this podcast we’ll explore this truth. I hope you will find it rewarding. Pass it on to others. Randy and I will follow with more friendship insights in future podcasts. When I think of rich friendships, my mind runs to a great quote from C.S. Lewis. Enjoy it.

In friendship, we think we have chosen our peers. In reality, a few years' difference in the dates of our births, a few more miles between certain houses, the choice of one university instead of another, the accident of a topic being raised or not raised at a first meeting---any of these chances might have kept us apart. But, for a Christian, there are, strictly speaking, no chances. A secret Master of Ceremonies and Divine Connector has been at work. Christ, who said to the disciples, "you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you". Jesus can truly say to every group of Christian friends, "you have not chosen one another but I have chosen you for one another."

Friendship is not a reward for our discrimination and good taste in finding one another out. It is the instrument by which God reveals to each of us the beauties of all the others.                                  C. S. Lewis. "Four Loves"

Transcript

Dr Hal Habecker: 0:00

Music. Welcome to the finish and well podcast where we encourage seasoned believers to find meaningful ways to impact their world for the kingdom of God, whether you're 65 and up or not quite there. Yet, our mission is to prepare and encourage every person to finish well. Our prayer is that this podcast will encourage and strengthen you to glorify Christ as we intentionally engage our aging fears. Good morning out there in finishing well, ministry podcast land. I'm here with a good friend this morning, Randy Marshall. We've been friends for many, many years, and we want to tackle or address the topic on friendship in our aging years. I had another friend who talked to me just last weekend about an intriguing conversation he had with old friends that he hadn't been with for 50 years, and it just got me thinking about friendships in our aging years and why they're important, and why they're even more important as we age. I think so the Randy, that's what you and I've experienced personally. So welcome Randy Marshall to our podcast this morning. Great

Randy Marshall: 1:23

to be here. Thank you for the invitation. And I think you're absolutely right. You know, people either die on you or they move away, and increasingly in the older years, at least, I felt this, a sense of loneliness that pervades you, unless you take action to do something about it. I've been so amazed by our friendship over the years. You have deliberately, proactively pursued me, and hopefully vice versa at times. And so we we are at the level of friendship that is extremely valuable, and I wouldn't do I wouldn't exchange it for anything.

Dr Hal Habecker: 2:00

Well, I wouldn't either Randy, you know that. And you also have a host a number of people who you meet with regularly, you have carved out, I mean, you, you've personified the value of maintaining good friendships. I

Randy Marshall: 2:15

have. And even in that number, though, I think how there's a few that stand out, much like Peter, James and John did with Jesus, there was a select few, and there are that you would consider to be knit or closer than a brother. You know, as I look at the Scripture, I really think that there are several levels of what people might call friends, and they go deeper. And you know, we can say that a friend is an acquaintance, a colleague, someone who is a friend, and we'll just kind of use that term loosely. I mean, even on Facebook, you know, they call them friends. You know, How many friends do you have? I would not allude to that as a friend. I think what we're talking about, what you're talking about today, is what I might refer to as a covenant friend, one whose hearts are really knitted together. David, Jonathan, kind of friendship where, I think, as we grow older, we need at least one or two of those kind of friends I do.

Dr Hal Habecker: 3:21

I think of Proverbs, 1824, a man of many friends comes to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother. It's those kinds of friendships that I think need to be pursued and valued as we age.

Randy Marshall: 3:37

No doubt, you know one of your favorite passages of Scripture is also one of mine. When you look at John 15, I think Jesus there obviously, as you talk about in the ministry you have with wine and the word, and it's a phenomenal ministry. We've attended that and been blessed. But there's a passage right in the middle of John 15 that just stands out, leaps off the page when it comes to friendship, and when Jesus there says, This is my commandment. There's no suggestion here that you love one another. In verse 12 of John 15, he means that love one another, this is my commandment. But then he doesn't leave us in a lurch. He even repeats that in verse 17. But in the middle of that, he gives us, I think, three qualities there of what a covenant friend really is. And I actually think that that's what we have, you and I have. And these three qualities very, very quickly, if I might please. The first one is that and uses the friend, word friends three times in those very short verses. He says, Greater love has no one than this, and one lay down his life. And so I think there's a commitment of friendship that transcends anything else feelings. Yeah, and that you've heard that old statement that when we got together, we just continued right where we left off. There's an element of truth to that. I agree. I think you and I would have that, for example. And so there's a commitment. What did Jesus do? Well, he demonstrated he was a friend of ours, friend of sinners, because he died for us, obviously, on the cross. But then it moves to the second phase, and that would be, I no longer call you slaves, but I call you friends, for when my father is made known to me, I make known to you. Well, he doesn't tell us everything. There are certain secrets only God has in the chamber, but he tells us enough to say, I'm your friend because I divulge secrets. And I think true friends, covenant friends, not colleagues, not what we might call Facebook folks, those kind of things are an acquaintance. We have an ability to be safe when we share secrets, we open up to one another, we become vulnerable or transparent. But then the third one, very quickly, is go and bear much fruit. And as you go and bear much fruit, we pray for each other as we bear fruit. And I think that fruit there is the fruit of the Spirit. So to sum it up, I think the height of friendship, covenant friendship, as you're constantly praying for each other to bear fruit. So you combine commitment and you combine communication, and that's seen in praying for each other. So it's commitment, communication and prayer. I think those are the three hallmarks of really covenant friendships, and that can't happen to all the people out there. It happens to a select few. I think you can love people, even your enemies, but that kind of friendship is worked at. It doesn't just happen by magic.

Dr Hal Habecker: 7:04

It's really true. And just quick comment there, it needs to go both ways as well. It does. I mean, Jesus initiates it in John 15. I've called you my friends because I've told you everything that's in my heart. That's right, but there has to be a response to that. Or Abraham was the friend of God because he lived by faith and trusted him and pursued him.

Randy Marshall: 7:25

There's, there's no question about that, and there has to be a mutuality there. And you know, the way I like to look at it is, you're you're walking side by side. God puts you together. He opens the door most of the time through a task. You're thrown together in a task, and our situation was the church, and so we begin to work together. And so in that task, as you're walking along, you sort of say to one another, you two, and you then turn. You're not just walking side by side, you turn. And now there's something that happens supernaturally at that point that separates you out from everybody else. And I think that's what happened to us, and it's what happens to a very few people, but Lord willing, I call it. Go play in the traffic. Get out there. Do something. Get involved in some areas where you can develop that kind if you say, I don't have anybody like that, well, the Lord says I'm pretty down on laziness. Get out there and start being a blessing to somebody and see what happens.

Dr Hal Habecker: 8:32

Well. And the other thing I want to comment on here, you know, you don't know who the people are that God will bring into your life that'll be really be true friends, and you can cultivate that. I mean, just like you and me. But you know, if you look back across your life, God keeps bringing a select few or a handful of people into your life to cultivate a

Randy Marshall: 8:52

friendship with, that's right, but they don't knock on your door. No, very rarely, sometimes they might, very rarely, that's true. Sometimes they do. I think you can say that's the exception rather than the rule. Here's what I found, and it happened to us, and I think it will happen to people that really want to develop a kindred spirit knitted together, covenant friend, meaning you have a sense of oneness together. I think there's two things that have to happen. One is you have to be consistent at wanting to get together and oh my goodness. And we have this you and you initiate, and I'll initiate. You'll say, hey, hey buddy, let's meet once a month there. So there has to be that sense of of consistency. And then there has to be that sense of intentionality. There's two pillars that hold up. I intend to do something we both like, but I'm consistent in doing that. And you know, something, you fight through the circumstances to be able to do that. We're all busy. People that are really covenant friends usually are pretty busy doing other things. Yes, and they're not just sitting around waiting, because God says move. And I will press on to the upper calling, and I'll bring it to pass. Yeah,

Dr Hal Habecker: 10:10

let me take it an additional way here. Okay, you know the because I want to talk about friendships as we age, our ministry is to aging people. You know God has a sense of value and purpose for you as you age, but the value of long friendships or friendships in your aging aging years is that you have a breadth of experience that you didn't have 20 years ago. That's right, which includes a lot of hardships, a lot of suffering, a lot of loss, a lot of failure, and whether or not you share those things, I mean, makes, makes all the difference in the world. And good friends go through life together. They share the ups and downs, the failures, successes. They encourage each other. And that, it seems to me, becomes more valuable as you age. There's a whole depth of friendship that you can have in your 70s, 80s and even 90s, as the world isolates you that you didn't have when you were 50 and 60. Well, that's

Randy Marshall: 11:07

correct, and again, it's fewer and fewer, but at least you have some person to lean on. And I think it's a sad situation when you don't in Acts 20. It strikes me as Paul goes back to talk to the elders. And the elder group is called that because they're older. And Paul is moving toward a tremendous ministry in the book of Acts, and the Spirit descends, and he begins to to work with churches and plant churches. And he goes back and he says, The Lord was with me, and I served the Lord. And he gives three qualities to the elders. He's teaching the elders. He said I was with you in all humility, through many tears and through the plots of the Jews. And I think the three ingredients to authentic friendship as we age, is that, because you know something, we can't manufacture that that only comes through time. That's why you don't appoint a younger person to be an elder. And so what he's saying is, you first of all, see someone that has a profound sense of humility. Secondly, you see someone that has a profound sense of empathy. They feel there's a fellow feeler with you. They understand what you're going through, the valleys of life. And then there's a strong sense of adversity you've gone through. You've gone through a war. And this is why I think the older teaches the younger, because they haven't arrived there yet. But I believe those three form the hospital, if you will, for tremendous, authentic friendships that can only be achieved through life experiences. And then it says, and then we proclaimed the Word of God. So it's the hospital first, and then it's the army and you're going on a mission, but first, it's that kindred spirit that binds you together. That's

Dr Hal Habecker: 13:11

so true. What is it about aging that ought to lead to a greater humility? I mean, I agree with you 100% aging does lead. I mean, obviously, in the end, you can't do anything. I mean, you lose your physical strength, your body begins to deteriorate, etc, etc, so you have nothing to offer like you felt you had to offer the world when you were 30 or 40. You know, we take the world, but as you age, there's a deeper sense of humility and loss that comes in. And I think we ought to value that.

Randy Marshall: 13:42

I think humility is the key to life. I think you would agree to that. I would, yeah, it's a proper evaluation of who you are before God. The best illustration I know of that was when I was in seminary, you know, wet behind the ears and green horn, and I thought I knew all the answers. And there was four boxes, and jump into them. Then all of a sudden I meet this older guy comes to chapel, and he's very slow talking and so but wise and humble, and he just admitted this sense, this aroma of life into life, and you just kind of wanted to be up next to him. And so I walked up to him afterwards, and I asked him a deep theological question, and he just looked at me and he said, Brother, you just keep searching the Word of God and you're going to find the answer to that. And I noticed that he didn't give me answers. He didn't give me a three point analysis. He just said, I'm so proud of you. Just keep on studying God will give you that answer. He was a man of few words, but coming out from him was a sense of solitude and quiet that he spent time with Jesus in in in tough situations, and he didn't give sermons. He just let his. Life speak, and then I will guarantee you he could let his lips speak, but he let me just go on and on spouting, and I've never forgotten that it was grooved in me. Here's a true man of humility, because he'd been through the paces. He knew he did, and yet he knew what he didn't know. He also knew that the best answer for leadership is I don't know, and we don't. The older I get, the less I know for sure. You know that old adage, I do that's true. I mean, we can surround ourselves with all this knowledge and so but Person A few words, so

Dr Hal Habecker: 15:40

let, let me amplify this little bit. You know, as we age, in a sense, we really, truly know less and less that's true. I mean, it's like Job arguing. We were talking about Joe before we started this, right? Excuse me, you know, and he comes to the point where he's silent. I got nothing more to say. I mean, he, he has learned through silence and humility to let God speak. So we go, we age. We don't want to keep talking about all the victories we had in our 30s and 40s and you know our success stories, but aging brings you into a whole new category, where you you're you're deeply humble, and you share what, what God is doing in your life now in your aging years. Not to give you all those successes, you might say, because you don't have them humanly. I mean, people don't listen to you anymore, but you have friends who value what God's doing in and through your life. And that's the best thing about aging friendships. That's

Randy Marshall: 16:40

right. You know, the book of Job is fascinating and illustrates your point perfectly. Here's job. I mean, his world is rocked twice, loses family, loses possessions, he loses his health and all of that. And he is very much alone. He is suffering. And his wife even says, Curse God and die. Is a real helpmate there. Yeah, and so, yeah, so he finds himself alone, and I think he goes through for 40 chapters. 40 chapters. It's a long narrative. 95% of it is a poem, because he's going to speak heart to heart. And so he goes through three of the biggest tests, and they're in order of toughness. The first test is, are you going to serve God when you're in the midst of suffering? Second Test is, are you going to serve God when you're alone feel abandoned? And finally, the toughest test of all, are you going to serve God when he's silent? And what's interesting is, those are the kind of people that, as they age, they understand those tests more than the younger person. I call it armchair theology versus wheelchair. It's good theology. Older people know that we are mere dust, and he knows how hard it is to be us. God does, and he he understands that well, those people are very attractive and should be for the person that really is filled with the Spirit, but young and wants to learn, yes, but two older guys or two older women that see that they are bonded. And it doesn't take long to do that and figure that out. I think you have a greater sense of discernment as you age.

Unknown: 18:26

It's good. So I want to talk about a verse or two.

Dr Hal Habecker: 18:31

You know, your wife and your daughter used to make these little cards. We giggle, yeah, and she had one with my favorite, one of my favorite verses on friendship, iron sharpens iron, right? So a man sharpens the Countess of his friend. We would have

Randy Marshall: 18:44

gone bankrupt had it been not for the purchases. Yes, thank you.

Dr Hal Habecker: 18:48

So what does that verse mean in the aging categories? I mean, you can apply that verse. I mean, I have in my life, I've applied it at every level, and now I'm in my 70s, you might say, I mean, I am in my 70s, you know, but that verses is critically important to me now as it has ever been, yeah,

Randy Marshall: 19:08

well, if I can be really personal as it relates to us, there's a verse also that I like, and I think it goes to your question that the kisses of an enemy or treacherous, and the wounds of friend bring healing. It's a great verse, it is, and I would have never known that you have wounded me, and you have maintained your friendship, and you should have wounded me because it brought healing to my life. And there was a period of time in which I was in rebellion and and you, as my pastor, saw that and dealt with that graciously and stayed with me. You, you were thick as thieves, if you will. And you, you were closer than her brother. Her, and I've never forgotten that grace that you gave me, but because you didn't give me the treacherous kisses of an enemy and abandoned me, but stick closer to me out of that came from ashes to beauty, and I'll be always, eternally indebted for that. And so I think I was acting like a 14 year old, and you were acting like an adult that happened to reach down and and catch me and and so I think that that is an illustration of how God works

Dr Hal Habecker: 20:39

so well, you're kind. Thank you.

Randy Marshall: 20:42

I'm telling the truth, but thank you. You were the one showing kindness, and I would define kindness as love in action, and that's exactly what you did.

Dr Hal Habecker: 20:51

Well, the gift of friendship is really a gift of God. It was unconditionally. You nurture it however it goes, and you be a friend of people. You challenge people. And then the other thing is, you're faster well, you sharpen people. I mean, you and I have had how many, countless conversations about the ministries God has entrusted to us. And you have your own ministry that's worldwide. And, you know, I have, we have this ministry and finishing well, which you've become a part of and we sharpen each other as we share the stories of growth and change and where God wants to take your ministry, et cetera, et cetera. Talk about that for a little

Randy Marshall: 21:31

bit. Well, I will. The other night, we had our small group in the church, and what we decided to do, what I lead that particular group, and I asked them to pick five verses that were their favorite verses, if they were alone and they did not have the Scripture and they wanted hope and they were captured by the enemy, wow. Yeah, five verses. And I said, you can't use the Bible, just whatever comes hidden in your heart. And so what was interesting was we sat at the dinner table after a great, great meal, and somebody started, I said, Okay, who will be next? And they they just quoted Scripture. This is in my heart. These are the important things that would give me hope when I'm alone and I don't have anybody with me. And as we went around the table, an interesting thing began to happen. Not only was there a sense of unity and bondedness, but there was a holy presence about that. And so about halfway through, I stopped, and I said, Do you guys sense anything different here? And they went, Yeah. And I said, You know what I think it is. I think it's the present presence of the Holy Spirit. And I really meant that because there was a holy hush around that table. And I said, God loves his word, and he's sharpening us through the word so community. I wouldn't say all of the people in there are covenant friends. But I would say the word of God molded us and sharpened us, and then the comments that would be made afterwards was sparking back and forth. There was a sharpening of each other. So I think you do that in community. There

Dr Hal Habecker: 23:15

was a deep sense of friendship around the table, even though you would not say those people, or some, they're they're not best covenant friends, that's right, but there was a deep sense of friendship that emerged there as the Spirit brought people together around the word.

Randy Marshall: 23:29

We became deeper friends. As a result of that, we moved from, yeah, we're friends, we're colleagues in the ministry, we're partners in the ministry, to now, let's get in the same fox hole together. Yeah, it was, it was an amazing sharpening and an amazing depth that we felt together. So

Dr Hal Habecker: 23:48

a verse that means a lot to me, and I know it means a lot to you. Hebrews 1024, and 25 Yeah, let's consider one another to stimulate. Or I like the old verse, the old word provoke, provoke each other to love and good deeds, not forsaking the assembling ourselves. Now that's true for that meeting you had around the table the other night, but it's also true for friendships. They really you provoke each other, you sharpen each other like proverbs 1717, and you stimulate each other the closer the day comes. Now, I thought about two angles in that. I think when the text was written, Jesus is coming back that. But in any case, there's a limited amount of time you think about so we're aging out of life, so to speak. You know, another 10 years if we live 10 years, I mean, you and me, or another 20 years, I mean, but our life is diminishing. You know, we know the end is closer than it was, so this verse stimulates me to continue to cultivate this kind of friendship in my aging years, whether or not Jesus comes back tomorrow or I get 10 more years to live. Well, I've

Randy Marshall: 24:56

noticed something in your life, and I've adopted this as well. You know. But when I was younger, I wanted to win the world about 30 minutes for Jesus, I had all these grandiose visions and all these things. And as I've aged, I've sensed that this wide funnel comes down to a narrowness of grandkids and family and investing in individuals and what I would call knee to knee ministry. And I think that the more I'm living now, the more I say that the worst thing you can do as a believer is to get isolated, because I think the enemy loves that and just picks you off. And so I've noticed that the amount of people you meet with is staggering. It's always been staggering to me, but you have conversations all over Dallas with people, and I think truly organic discipleship is that, but you are one that will never isolate yourself from another person. I've learned from that, and you narrow that because you visit California kids, you're going to do that all the time. It's a high priority for you, and seemingly now to write things to them and to become friends to my kids, who are now adults, is extremely important, as I'm looking back and passing the torch to them, because I want them to carry on the ministry and all of these visionary things, kind of, poof. They disappear in relation to one or two people that are in crisis that I would move on and say, The Lord will take care of you. No, no, no. Now it's go deep with them. You

Dr Hal Habecker: 26:43

mentioned another thing. It's really important in friendships. I mean, I care about your kids. I care about your grandkids. I don't know them all as well, but you know, we've been a part of each other's families, and part of our friendship is valuing our relationship with each of our kids, our grandkids, and being aware of what God's doing in their lives and how to encourage them, and how I can pray for your kids, and how you can pray for my kids, you

Randy Marshall: 27:07

bring it up all the time, and you talk about how they're doing, and you talk about their birthdays, and it's amazing. And what it does, it just tells me that, again, it's a loving thing out of John 15, when anybody talks to me and Kathy as well my wife, about our kids in a loving way, in an interested way, it just says, you're my friend. You're my friend. Because if you genuinely demonstrate interest and you lean in, I call it leaning in. You want to see pictures. You're delighted to have that not just have the kids and then moving on, like a perfunctory kind of thing. It makes all the difference in the world. True friends do that. They're interested in their circle of influence, and that's why you need to get out there and begin to look in the past for old friends and renew those friendship there's lots of things in the community that you can do, and I've got a whole list of those things, and I begin to think, yeah, so really amazing, all those things you can do when like, oh, woe is me. No more blessed to give than to receive, but what goes around comes around. A satchel. Page said, Just get out there and do something and see what happens. It's spread on the water. It will come back.

Dr Hal Habecker: 28:32

There are other angles in this conversation going could go on forever. I'd say it could. But let's talk about friendship in terms of loss, you and I, both as pastors, we've witnessed a lot of loss in people's lives. I mean losing friends, you know, through diseases, accidents, tragedies of all sorts. You know, those kinds of conversations and leaning into friendships in the midst of loss and hardship are really critical, critically important moments.

Randy Marshall: 29:08

You've called me, and I can tell you one specific instance in which the son of one of the folks in the congregation lost a son, and you said, Randy, let's go. And I learned a lot by what you did with them. I learned a lot about how you approached that situation with loss, and I grew because you're exactly right. All of us are going to be confronted with that. How silent Are you? When do you pray with somebody? And I think it's more of a heart thing than it is a taught thing, and the situation determines. The boss is the situation, but at the same time, true friends are. Uh, that have experienced loss, understand that it either drives you apart from God or draws you closer to him. You see, I'm ready for heaven. I'm 77 and we'll be 78 soon. And to live is Christ, to die is gain. And my whole philosophy right now, because I'm going through a health issue, my whole philosophy is I won't have an appointment with death. I will experience loss on this earth, but to live as Christ and to die is gain. So I've learned a lot through the years that God sustains you. My main lesson there, brother, is that I'm not afforded the grace that somebody going through the loss is they're afforded the grace. But true, but I watch the grace that's been given to them by God, and so that makes all the difference to me. He's a good God.

Dr Hal Habecker: 30:57

He is always good, yeah, he's a good God, and he's good all the time, right? That's what the song says. That's what I hear. So it makes me think again, Ecclesiastes seven, the mind of the wise is in the house of the morning, M, o, u, r, N, I, N, G, For therein is the end of every man and the living takes it to heart. So I want to say again, it goes back to Hebrews. The day draws near. You know, life has its limitations, so let's capture them for the glory of God in profound friendships where we lean into each other's lives and really sharpen each other even the last days, the last weeks, the last years you may have for the purposes of God in our lives, all

Randy Marshall: 31:38

I know is, in the end, life is brief. It flies by. It's but a vapor. It's like sparks that fly up or from a campfire, and then it's gone. And so Redeem the time, seize the day, dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness. Bloom where you're planted. All those kinds of things make a difference the older you get. I said to Kathy the other day, I said, it's amazing how many times I feel like I'm getting ready to go to bed. Just happened so quickly. The days, the days just got brought their past and Time flies. It does. You age. It really does. And my dad was right, you know, I thought, Oh no, you know, it's like, I've waited forever for Christmas, and now it's like, didn't we just put those decorations upstairs, and now we're bringing them down again. And so it's a sense in which I'm on a mission. God is never in a hurry, but I need to be deliberate, and I need to continue to walk in obedience in the same direction, and really comes down to it. The two lessons I've learned as I'm now rounding the bend and heading for home is that old song is right. It's trust and obey. There's no other way to be happy in Jesus than TRUST and OBEY in the aging years. In the aging years. Boils down to those two pillars. Yeah,

Dr Hal Habecker: 33:03

I've loved this, Randy. Thanks for being my friend. Thank you for being mine. Thanks for willing to talk about this. And there are other maybe we should have some other podcasts that extend this idea in other ways. But I hope you've been challenged if you've listened to Randy and me talk about these kinds of ideas, and I encourage you, and I know Randy would too, but apply them in your life, cultivate friendships in these important years in your life, as we live the last third or the last quarter, I would say friendships are never more important. I say

Randy Marshall: 33:37

if people are on their death bed, they never say, come out and look at the parking lot, at my Lexus, they will say that life, in the end, for the believer, and probably for the unbeliever too, boils down to family and friends. There's truth there.

Dr Hal Habecker: 33:52

You're a blessing. You are and thanks for all of you listening to this today. Pray for finishing well, ministries and our mission of encouraging seniors in this season of our life to be about all that God has entrusted to us, and let's continue to pray for each other. God. Bless you and thanks. Thank you for listening to this. Finish it well podcast. We hope you were encouraged by today's conversation, living out your God given purpose. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts, where you can find us at finishing well. Ministries, dot O, R, G, forward, slash podcast. If you have a question, a comment or a suggestion or an idea, send a note to me how finishing well. Ministries.org, check out our website and our vision to change the way we think about our aging season of life. Go to finish a well ministries.org and visit our website. We'll see you next time, and may the Lord bless and encourage you.