Episode S6E7: A Story of God’s Faithfulness in a Journey with Cancer

Hal and Vicki interview Greg and Louise Master as they share their story of Greg’s life-threatening cancer. 

Listen and learn with them through their faith-filled journey.

Greg Master shares his journey with bladder cancer, diagnosed on May 12, 2023. He discovered the tumor himself through a CT scan and was initially given a single-digit two-year survival rate. Greg underwent chemotherapy, including the brutal "Red Devil," and a radical cystectomy. Despite the challenges, he found peace through faith and scripture, receiving 39 verses from God. Greg emphasized the importance of not going through cancer alone, advocating for support and community. He also highlighted the need for churches to provide better cancer support and his ongoing efforts to establish such a ministry.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:02

Matt today on the finishing well podcast, being blessed is not dependent on rewarding and happy circumstances, not just based on things we receive. Although there are plenty of examples of God's blessing in terms of life, prosperity, protection and peace in Scripture, but peace. This is where I personally found and continue to find my richest blessings. Welcome to the finishing well podcast where we encourage believers of every age to find meaningful ways to impact their world for the kingdom of God. Our mission is to prepare and encourage every person to live well and to finish well. We pray this podcast will be a source of strength and encouragement as we seek to glorify Christ as we engage him in our aging years. Now, here's your host for finishing well. Hal habecker,

Hal Habecker: 0:54

well. Welcome to finishing well ministry podcast. We're interviewing today a good friend, Greg master, along with his wife, Louise, we've known each other. Greg, how long?

Unknown: 1:08

Well, let's not count, but it's certainly close to 30 years. I believe

Hal Habecker: 1:13

we ran into each other in 1990 I guess so. We're into our third decade, halfway through it, on our way to 40, and it's a joy to have you here. Greg and Louise, Greg has a unique story, which you'll hear, and I'm going to let him tell it, but I think it's beneficial for all of us out there, and you'll find God using it in your life as well. So Greg and I, we've known each other's families. We've watched all your boys come into the world. We watch them get married and have families, and it's just one of the rich things in life. I talk about connecting. You know, Friends are just great, and you and I have had a great relationship. We've reconnected even more through this journey, and even in a Bible study we're both involved in so Thanks, Greg Amen, Louise and Vicki, thanks for having us. Good to have you here. So Greg, with that, you may want to say something else. Let's lean into your story. Introduce yourself, your story to everybody, and let's go, yeah,

Unknown: 2:17

let me just before we start, Al, just affirm what you just said about our friendship. As you know, Louise and I, our boys, have a great admiration for you and Vicki for your kids, Bethany and Jonathan and Jennifer, you've been a mentor, a spiritual advisor, an encourager, a challenger, a confidant and and just a trusted friend for for years now, decades, as you suggest, I think you've heard me say before that I've I've told my boys that if ever something happens to me and I'm not able to speak, call Hal habecker First, and they know that then they've heard it from me several times. So I'm honored to be here with you, with Vicki, with my wife, telling this unique story that is ultimately God honoring, and that's that's where I want your listeners to understand that that's my focus, is to ensure that God gets the glory for like you say every day, but especially through this journey,

Hal Habecker: 3:25

I have to share one other insight just came. Okay, we've known each other for a long time, and when I became pastor at Dallas Bible Church, at our installation service, you sang Steve Green's song, find us faithful. So that's the key of finishing. Well. People ask me, where did finishing? Well, ministry start with? Well, it may have started that Sunday when you sang Steve's song that he would find us faithful, and that's the way we want to live through the very end of our lives. So let's keep encouraging each other that he may find us faithful whatever happens in

Unknown: 3:59

life, amen, and parenthetically, still one of the hardest songs I've ever sang. There's such high parts in that song. It's great. Well, go on. I want to hear your story. So yeah, this is a story of of cancer survival, and my journey with cancer, with with God through that journey. So basically, on May 11, 2023 I thought I was good, and on May 12, I found out that I was not. And that's how quick it happened. And immediately I can remember right after I found out, and I'll tell you a little bit about how I found out, but James 415, came to mind almost immediately. If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that, and I live by that today, that if, in fact, God wants it, if I'm to do something tomorrow, then it'll happen. And if not, I won't. And it resonated with me since. Starting on that day, on May 12, I'd been experiencing blood in my urine. My urologist had said that I had kidney stones, and that's what I believed it was for a while. And being that I've spent the my career in medical devices, I kind of know the insides. I'm not a clinician, but I understand how the sausage is made, as they say. And I said, No, something's something's not right here. And so I strongly suggested a CT scan. So on May 12, as I suggested, I'm sitting at my laptop after this CT scan had been done, and I got a notice on email that said, You've got test results. And what I discovered sitting at my house on my own behind my laptop, was that I had a tumor on my bladder. And at that point in time, just knowing what I knew, I knew it was cancer that very, very, very, very rarely is a tumor on your bladder, benign. So I discovered it on my own, sitting behind a laptop, reading a test report, basically. And then, I don't know about you, but you know that physical reaction you get like, Am I dreaming? You kind of shake your head. You literally, I remember pinching myself, thinking, I must be in a dream. I literally thought that, and I immediately called Louise, and then right after that, I submitted a What did you leave of absence? I told her that I had cancer. I mean, would her and I have a very honest, open relationship, and we don't, kind of, we don't mince words. And I just flat out said, Hey, honey, I'm sitting behind my laptop. I just got the test report back and and I've got, I've got cancer. There's a tumor on my bladder, and it's cancer. So she was out and about, and I was at home alone. So it was unique to discover it that way. I will say that. Can

Vicki Habecker: 7:04

I interrupt for a second? Sure? He just called you on the phone. What do you think?

Unknown: 7:10

Well, my first response was, you don't know that you're not a doctor. You're just looking at the results and you know, let's just wait and see. I mean, I'm an eternal optimist, and so I really did, obviously hope that it wasn't and that he was wrong, but unfortunately, that wasn't true. But that's how, that's basically what I did. I kept kind of the faith until we were told differently. Well, she's never lost a faith. She She, she kept the faith, and has kept the faith throughout the entire journey and and that's just how she lives her life. So we went to see my urologist, and not a gentleman that has a great bedside manner. He called us back to his very sterile office, and we started looking at the black and white screen. He goes, now, see here, you just got a little tumor right there. That's literally how I said it, you remember? And it's like, Yes, I know. And so her and I start asking questions. He was like, well, settle down now. But you know, we will have enough time. And I'm thinking, Well, I got to get out of this office as soon as I can. There's just not a lot of empathy and compassion beginning this journey with my clinician that had discovered this. So on May 22 I had what's called a T or a B T. It's basically where they scrape the inside of your bladder. They try to get as much tumor as they can. They set it off to pathology. And you know, after he had done the T, U, R, B, T, I fired him as as my urologist, and I went found somebody else. So it took a while. Took a couple days. The path report came back that I had muscle invasive plasma, cytoid tumor, carcinoma on my bladder, which also came with single digit two year survival rate, yes, so literally, I was now face to face with the prospect of death, given what statistics were suggesting to me. You and I had a conversation. I'm looking at Vicki right now about statistics, and I've, I've discovered a lot about them over this process, and what they are and what they're not. So you know, one of my first thoughts after that was, okay, I've, I've got a cancer that could potentially kill me in a short period of time, based on these statistics, and one of my first thoughts revolved around that old adage that says God will not give you more than you can handle. And I believe this really to be bunk, right? I don't particularly believe it's biblical. And I actually believe. That we are provided these type of situations because we cannot handle it on our own, and we need God to walk beside us. We need friends to walk beside us, confidants to laugh with us, to cry with us. So that adage didn't play with me. I said, God's got me here for a purpose, and it is more than I can handle without him. And I'll say again, parenthetically, I really don't understand how people can go through something like this without God. I don't fathom how people can actually go through a journey like this without faith in Jesus. I really, I really don't. So, you know, I got scheduled for pet and brain scans. I was told by my urologist that or my oncologist that this tumor has what she called tentacles, so it could reach out from the tumor bed itself to my brain, to my lungs, to my bones. That it was unique, this plasma cytoid tumor was very unique, and that it, it could really not just metastasize, but just reach out anywhere, like an octopus. Scary. That's, that's how she described it. You remember that, right? Yeah, exactly. It very scary. And she was very forthright, very open, very honest. And she's wonderful oncologist, wonderful at UT Southwestern. She put me on a chemo regimen, four drugs over two days for several months. One drug is called the Red Devil, and it literally looked like big red soda, you know, big red and it was literally red, and it was called the Red Devil. And it, it was brutal. It was of the four drugs that they gave me that was, that was the one that that really did the most damage. I was scheduled for a chemo port placement where they put my chemotherapy and they do my blood draws, and then the the bladder and prostate removal. It's called a radical cystectomy. Was was scheduled later in the year, depending on what my prognosis was and how well I was responding to chemotherapy. So that was kind of where we were now, in the interim, in the middle of all this, I've got to inform my sons and at the time, my two daughters in law. I have three daughters in law now, but at the time it was two. And I will tell you, and you understand this, I think is both the hardest thing you've had cancer, the hardest thing that I had to do was tell my sons that I had cancer, not because it was hard on me, but because I knew it would be especially hard on

Hal Habecker: 12:46

them. Did you and Luis process that together? How you're going to tell them? Et cetera, we

Unknown: 12:51

did. Do you have any comments on that? No, I think you and I were talking earlier today. I kind of blanked it out. I asked him, I said, Do you remember how we we talked to the boys. I mean, I literally had no recollection of what we did, but we did. We once we talked to we actually had our son, Grayson, in town this morning, and so we asked him, and he reminded us, and we were like, Oh yeah, that's

Vicki Habecker: 13:14

Wow. That's what we did. Did you have all three boys there at the same time? No, they all lived in different cities. So you had to tell this one, and then you had to tell that one. That's right, yes.

Unknown: 13:23

And we only told one in person, and so two were on the phone, which was rough, yeah, yeah. Grayson, in our conversation this morning, remembered it poignantly. He remembered, like, word by word, he said, Well, when you called Garrett, our oldest son, he wasn't there, so you called me next. And so it was just that was so so hard, the distress that I knew that it would put them under. Fortunately, my whole family loves Jesus. I am so incredibly fortunate and blessed to have a family full of people that love Jesus. So I knew, even though it was a challenging conversation, obviously, to have, that ultimately we were going to be okay. Did you

Vicki Habecker: 14:11

feel Louise, like you had to switch your emotional caregiving from your husband then to your sons? Does that make sense?

Unknown: 14:22

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I would say the hardest thing for me in this entire journey was just praying and being worried about being enough of an emotional support I knew I could do all of the physical part and, you know, and just being there and that kind of thing. But the emotional support and just kind of figuring out what it was that Greg needed, what it was the boys were going to need throughout was very difficult

Vicki Habecker: 14:50

totally understand that

Unknown: 14:52

one, yeah, well, this is my rock here. Well, you know how it is your mama heart just hurts. Yeah? And it, I mean, obviously I was concerned for Greg, but he's mature, and he's been through things, and I don't know, you just have some wisdom of the years where the boys just didn't have that. So I was worried and, you know, but we prayed together, and we just, we prayed so much together throughout this entire journey for Greg and with them, and, you know, for them and for their families. And I think ultimately it brought us all closer together, amen, through through the struggle so at the end of the day, and more on this later, but we're blessed, right? I mean, we are. We are blessed regardless of our circumstances and and we knew we would be fine as a family, because we're all locked into Jesus. Okay, so we're, we're going to get through this together and with Jesus's care and his guidance.

Hal Habecker: 15:57

So you had a sense of the peace of God. And how long did that take? I mean, was it only days? It

Unknown: 16:03

was almost instant. It was immediate. Hal it really was immediate. When scripture talks about peace that passes all understanding, that's what I had. It was unique. It was spiritual. It was real. It was spirit, led God gave me 39 verses during this whole journey that I've got documented today, and I refer to them routinely. A good portion of them, I'd say 30, at least 30% of them are on the piece that Jesus, wow, not as the world gives peace. Yes, and that's one of them. And God knew I needed that, because I am a type A personality. I tend to live with stress in my life. And you know, you ask a question when we were before this about how we handled stress together, and I asked her this morning, I said, I don't feel like we had a significant amount of as the world sees it stress in this process. I mean, it was sad, it was hard, it was physically and emotionally and spiritually challenging, but the stress that I've experienced a lot in my life was not there in this process. And I believe, with my whole heart, that was just a divine intervention of God's Spirit. Praise God. Yeah, well, and totally a tribute to I mean scripture being the road map. I mean, if we had not had those to rely on and to refer to every day to remind us of what God has already done for us and what we can expect him to do regardless of the outcome, I think that's what would make it so seem so hopeless. But we didn't have that. Now.

Hal Habecker: 17:46

You weren't going through this just by yourself. You had a sibling who was Yeah.

Unknown: 17:52

So my brother, my younger brother of six years Kevin, had been diagnosed with cholangiocarcinoma, bile duct cancer a year before. So I was, you know, obviously being his brother first and foremost, but I was also his patient advocate, because I understood the healthcare system to enough of a degree where I could guide him in some of the things that he needed to be thinking about, where he should stay away from things on the internet and where he should go. Look at studies, etc. Don't look at, you know, opinions, you know, ground yourself in truth as defined by science. But yes, he had been diagnosed one year before.

Hal Habecker: 18:39

Me, it's strange. I mean, maybe God was preparing you. I don't know.

Unknown: 18:44

I'm not sure how I would right. I mean, how would we know that? I can remember when I got diagnosed, one of my first thoughts was about Kevin. I said, this is just wild. You know that both of us within a year of each other, and it's just him and I. We have a very I used to joke. We can have a family reunion over a three way conference call. We're a very small family. It's my it was my father, my mother, my brother and me. And we had one uncle that had passed away. We had no aunts, no cousins. Our grandparents obviously had died earlier. So we had a very, very, very small family. So, and if we continue to talk through this, you'll, you know, you know the story of how it's, how it's played out, but you know the back to peace, the very first scripture that I wrote in Caring Bridge. So I started at your suggestion, how you said, document your journey, journal. I'm not a journalist, but I really, it really resonated me because I thought I need to document this so that if I live, I can refer back to it, which I do. And so that was very important. But the very first verse that came to me is peace. I leave with you. My peace I give to you, not. As the world gives do I give to you, so let not your heart be troubled, neither let them be afraid. And like I said, subsequently, God gave me 39 more verses, specific verses that I referred to over this journey, many of which dealt with peace. So it was during this time, also how you may remember that Tim Keller, Pastor, Timothy Keller, was at the end of his cancer journey. Remember? Well, I watched his service, yes, yes. And so he went to be with the Lord on May 13. So the day after I discovered on, while reading my laptop, Dr Keller had gone to be with the Lord on May 13, and so this is playing out. My brother's situation was playing out. And Dr Keller Tim wrote this remarkable article entitled growing my faith in the face of death. And there's a couple salient points I'd love to share with you and your listeners that came out of that article. I would encourage your listeners to go find the article growing my faith in the face of death. But these really ministered to me. And this is coming from you know, Tim Keller. He says, quote, religious faith does not automatically provide solace in times of crisis, and this was like a giant epiphany to me at the time, for how active, not passive the Christian life needs to be. His statement, in and of itself, was, was this revelation to me, and then he says, So, when the certainty of your mortality and death finally breaks through, is there a way to face it without debilitating fear? Is there a way to spend the time you have left growing into greater grace, love and wisdom? I believe there is, he says, but it requires both intellectual and emotional engagement, both head work and heart work. And he goes on to say, but as death, the last enemy, became real to my heart. I realized that my beliefs would have to become just as real to my heart, or I wouldn't be able to get through the day. Theoretical ideas about God's love and the future resurrection had to become life gripping truths or be discarded as useless. Amen, I was, this is Tim Keller writing. This is raw stuff that this man's writing. And it was writing is like he was writing it to me, you know, after, right after he passed, so he finally said, for me as a Christian, Jesus's costly Love, Death and Resurrection had to become not just something I believed and filed away, but a hope that sustained me all my day, this powerful stuff, stuff that really, really ministered to me at a time, obviously, when I needed it.

Vicki Habecker: 22:53

Had you had your surgery yet? No, okay, this is still may just briefly tell us about your chemo experience and how, how were you? Because I've heard that's just not a

Unknown: 23:07

pleasant Yeah, yeah, no, it wasn't. But I brought you tomatoes. Yes, you did. Let's talk about that, because this is very important part of the story. Vicki, so I began chemo on June 8, and this whole story of chemo is a story of rejoicing in and of itself. So I'm going into chemo with the red devil as one of my four drugs, two days a week, eight hours per day every two weeks. I will say that the infusion room itself, the nurses and staff were absolutely amazing. I still call some of them friends today when I go down for my routine surveillance, I still ask for some of the nurses that I met over the course of that journey, wonderful, wonderful, caring and compassionate people, but the most amazing God thing is that my infusion room a place of death. Okay, really, because cancer cell death and healthy cell death, it's all due to the poison that you're that are being pumped in you at that time, it turned into this infusion room, and you were there. How it turned into a living, holy sanctuary, a temple, a place of worship, a place of laughter, a place to weep. People showed up that I would have never expected. It was a party at several points during the two months there, the infusion director had to come ask us to keep it down, because we there were so many people in there all the time, and we were laughing and weeping and praying, and we were determined that we are not going to let this keep us from rejoicing in the Lord, believing and trusting in His sovereignty, and not allow an inch for the enemy. And what verse came to my mind as First Thessalonians, which says. Rejoiced always give thanks in all circumstances. And I think we honored that scripture, Hal and you sat with me for many of those hours. You sat with me for one full day, you and Mack powers, but the days you weren't there, it still stayed a holy sanctuary full of laughter and weeping and praying for two full months, it was really incredible. And then you brought me tomatoes, which was which he enjoyed immensely. I

Hal Habecker: 25:32

love tomatoes. It occurs to me just Jesus when He calls us, he said, If anyone wants to follow me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, an instrument of death, and follow me. So going through your illness is really what Tim Keller said, a rigorous exercise of what the spiritual life is all about. You keep following Jesus. You keep dealing with all the ragged, rugged pain, killing stuff in your life, submitted it to him, and he gives you his life back. And why would we expect it to be any different? I mean, that's what he said. Deny yourself, take up your cross daily. You don't know about tomorrow, live today and press on. That's it,

Vicki Habecker: 26:17

Louise, did you put your life

Unknown: 26:20

on hold. I really didn't, I mean, Greg encouraged me to continue to play tennis, which is one of my loves, to get together with my friends, who came out in droves and made us mini meals and, you know, brought us encouraging scriptures and showed up to just, you know, do a variety of things for us. So, yeah, I was out there and we had, I mean, at one time, you said we had, what, over 1000 people praying for you, at least according to, you know, the information we're getting through Karen bridge and others. And I will say, I'll underscore something she just said, and what she had said before when you when you were asking questions, and that is, it was really important for me. She the most stressed I saw her was not for herself, but was she providing the emotional support that she knew that I needed, that the boys needed, etc, and I actually saw stress. We've been married for almost 37 years. I rarely see stress on her face, but it was intensely stressful for her to feel like she was providing the emotional support. And the best thing for me at the time was seeing her continue to live her life. We

Vicki Habecker: 27:45

use that phrase, you have to be a missionary to yourself. Sometimes, instead of taking care of everybody else, take care of yourself.

Unknown: 27:55

And that was what was important. I wanted her to go out. I wanted her to not worry about having a dinner for me or meals for me. I mean, I wasn't very hungry a lot of the time anyway. So I she'd come in my room, I'd be lying in bed, and I said, Honey, just go play tennis. Go with your friends, go do your Bible study, whatever you do. Keep doing it. And it took a while. It It took several weeks for me to convince her that's really what I wanted, for me, is for her to live, continue to live her life. It's good. Yeah. Press on. So the story gets better concurrently all my tests that I spoke of before this, brain scans and CT scans and PET scans, they they came back normal, so at this point, no metastatic disease, and my brain scan had come back, and I joked in caringbridge, at least it revealed that I actually had a had a brain now, my very witty first daughter In law, she responded over the text message that I sent to the family, she said, I'm going to have to see the report in order to confirm so. And that's the gallows humor, I guess they call it. We kept that up at the top. I especially had employed gallows humor quite a bit that the ability to laugh was very, very important to me. I love to laugh. It's it truly is medicine. And I wanted to keep that. And so my family helped me keep that. I love it so but, yeah, chemo was intense. Chemo was intense and, and after these tests had come back, I'm still going through chemo and Romans, 816, 17, the Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God and a children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him, in order that we may also be glorified with Him. And that's how I looked at my chemo process. I read. It as a suffering, you know, with him and Tony Evans wrote, being adopted as God's children may come with extreme benefits. He's commenting on this particular chapter in Romans, but it also carries with it intense responsibility. Yes, we are already heirs of God, but we can only become co heirs with Christ if we suffer with Him, if we do suffer, we will be glorified with Him. If we shrink back in the day of trial, I read this during chemo, we'll lose something valuable. We cannot lose our salvation, but we can certainly lose some of the reward that God intends for us. Thought these were great words, very insightful, and again, words that God gave me as I was reading things that I felt were going to be an encouragement for me. God gave me this. So right after then, as I was studying scripture and going through psalms, at your encouragement, Hal that's one of the things I did, took your your guidance on that you know, Philippians, 122, 24 this is one I refer to almost daily. Now for me to live as Christ and to die is gain, but if I live in the flesh, this means more fruitful labor. For me, it came to me, and so I was at a point now in this process where I was mentally and emotionally, running back and forth between, like Randy alcorns book called heaven, and trying to study it's one of your it was your seventh essential right is to be focused on that. And I, I started studying the book of John. I'm not sure why God laid that on my heart, to be honest with you, except for John five, we won't get into that. Some some interesting things that I had to work through in John, and maybe that's why he had the book of John. Kind of rest on my heart during that time. But I began to pray even then about what my potential fruitful labor may be, if, in fact, I live beyond this, which apparently now I'm speaking, I'm just praying through exactly so then, Vicki, your point about surgery on September 27 now I've gone through chemo, I've had good CT scans, and now it's time for the real stuff. You know? Now it's time to have this bladder removal, prostate removal and everything. And I, I had discovered a man being in the medical device business. I had found a gentleman down at UT Southwestern that performed the surgery robotically. He's one of the best in the country, if not the world, and he's right here in Dallas. And I was able to find him through some mutual contacts that I have of the company that sells the robot. And it was a godsend. And he was spectacular. So he took my bladder, my prostate, two dozen lymph nodes, all of which were clean, and so my chances for longer term survival were now improving. He did not, however, create what's called a NEO bladder, which is kind of a pseudo bladder that they create out of your small intestines that become the reservoir inside of your abdominal cavity. He talked me out of that, and so I today, I still wear Paul's got a thorn in his flesh. I have a hole in my side, and I wear a pouch. I wear a urostomy pouch, and it is a constant reminder of God's grace, His sovereignty, His love, His forgiveness. I see it every day, every day I look in the mirror, and there's a pouch hanging from my belly, and it literally is a reminder, because one of my biggest fears Alan Vicki, is that I would regress that going through this journey and it being so spiritually rich and fruitful that I would forget, right? That, I mean, that's one of the biggest problems I have, is forgetting, you know, what God has done, which is why the Christian life is so active. It has to be active, actively searching scripture, actively reminding ourselves of God's glory. And so that was always my fear. Well, he's not gonna let me do that now, because I've got this pouch that reminds me of those points in time where God taught me so

Hal Habecker: 34:33

much. But isn't that why God gives us those kinds of challenges to remind us that we have to vigorously press on, otherwise we become lazy.

Unknown: 34:45

Yes, sir, we do. I do. I do. I will speak for myself, I do. I

Hal Habecker: 34:50

think Paul says that about aging, that's why I'm fascinated with finishing well, though our outer man is decaying, our inner man is so we're going through this rigorous process even as we look. Ourselves in the mirror and watch the aging process take over, in a sense, but we resist it, and our inner man is being renewed rigorously every day, just as yours was through this whole

Unknown: 35:11

process. Such a wonderful verse, such a wonderful verse. It's on the page of my book, so I love that.

Hal Habecker: 35:19

But talk about your family. There were some other things going on there.

Unknown: 35:22

Relative to my brother, that side of my man that, yes, yeah. So Kevin is, is his prognosis is shaping up to be, not what mine is. It's shaping up to be, to be tough. I mean, he's, he's definitely on a course towards the other side of eternity. And so during the process of me continuing to heal from chemotherapy, from the surgery, et cetera, I'm walking with my brother and holding his hands through the process. At the same time my mother and father, elderly mother and father live in Pennsylvania and your old neck of the woods Hal literally, and they are struggling. They're in their now later 80s, early 90s, and dementia is setting in. Physical ailments are setting in, and the combination of both, especially for my father, are particularly challenging. So now I'm finding myself obviously attempting to heal physically on my own, walking with my brother, and now going back and forth to Pennsylvania to be with my especially my father at the time, who fell, broke his hip and his shoulder. I came back, then he fell and broke his other hip. I came back, and then he broke the recently repaired hip that he had just broken so that became dislocated. I went back. Had to make a decision as their power of attorney and as their oldest son, with my brother's consultation, to move them into assisted living.

Vicki Habecker: 37:02

You talked about how difficult it was to tell your boys, yeah, your diagnosis. How did you handle telling your parents, and did they know how severe? Kevin, yeah, diagnosis was. How did that work? Just thinking our lot of our audience, and finishing well is, you know, yeah, older folks, sure. And how do they respond?

Unknown: 37:26

Yeah, well, I don't care. You guys have, have obviously been through, you know, something with your family. You're with Jonathan and and what I said, when I said, I don't care, I don't care how old you are, it is hard news to receive about your child. I don't care if you're if it's a two year old, a 20 year old or or a 60 year old, it's hard news to receive. So we had already let my parents know that Kevin had cancer. Now I got on the phone with him. I remember distinctly the evening I had the conversation with him, and I explained to them some of the clinical things that were going on, but they, I'm not sure, ever really fully appreciated how bad it was for Kevin. And there was some intent to that, to be honest with you, some selective disclosure on our part. I mean, why? Why do they need to know the nitty gritty? And so we would tend to tell them the good news, and Kevin was doing well, and he had some treatments, and he was doing better, and those types of things. But then a year later, I had to tell them that I had cancer. So I think they were generally in shock, but my dad's now experiencing dementia, so how that all absorbs in the human brain? I have no idea. I had no idea. So, so yeah, it journey, it was and it was be done a lot over the phone, because my parents lived nowhere close to us. So anyway, that was, in and of itself, a great opportunity to continue to lean on lean on. God. I mean, now I'm in this incredible position of responsibility with my parents as their son, as their power of attorney, healthcare directive, etc, to do what is best and what is right for them at the same time walking with my brother and trying to become whole myself.

Hal Habecker: 39:28

I'm going back to First Corinthians, 1013, no temptation. Well, if God told had told you everything, you would go through, Kevin, your parents, you would have said, This is unbelievable. God, this doesn't make sense,

Unknown: 39:42

or I can't do this, yeah, blow the trumpet and get us all out of here.

Hal Habecker: 39:47

Yeah, right in the struggle every day, it begins to make sense, though.

Unknown: 39:51

It the beauty. It's a tapestry, as they say, how it plays out and how it's woven together at the right time, right by. My belief and trust in God's sovereignty today is so much more congealed than it ever has been because of this. Exactly what you're saying

Hal Habecker: 40:10

how God's will was alive and at work in your life always did.

Vicki Habecker: 40:16

Did you have your affairs in order? Yeah, I know Helen talks about that in the last of the Yes, finishing well, thing I

Unknown: 40:26

had not, but I started, and it drove Louise crazy, because I was putting spreadsheets together about what you do with the thermostat of the house. You know, lots of training sessions for me, it was, but it was important to me, if I die, I want you to know, you know, some of the things that I tend to do myself, you know, the maintenance on the house and all that. So yes, I started doing all that. And then my dad had given me this three ring binder at my pleading 10 years ago for just that Vicki the preparation for your passing, and it was chock full of stuff for me to know in order to manage his estate in his in his final years, my father did end up passing in March of this year. No last year and no, this year, sorry, it was 2025, gosh, I'm losing time March of last year. We moved them to your brothers fall in my brother's death, which was in November of last a year ago. That's right, yeah, almost a November 17 will be one year. So, you know, the the surgery went, went well. There was nothing in the lymph nodes. You know, I'm living with a urostomy and a urostomy pouch now. And you know, the best description I have of all this is it just made me pause and realize that this life, this side of eternity, is fragile and unpredictable. You know that all along, healthy people don't, yeah, my life is fragile. It's unpredictable.

Hal Habecker: 42:05

That's why Ecclesiastes reminds us to go to funerals regularly. We need to be reminded that we're not permanent.

Unknown: 42:13

Some kind of reminder needs to happen. You're right, because I think we get lazy to your point. I mean, you know, and we don't realize that our life is but a vapor, you know, and we, we have to be mindful that God has our days numbered, but he hasn't given us that number, right? I mean, your your whole series on Hezekiah, as you know, I love it. He gave him 15 years, he told him exactly how long he'd have, and he still blew it.

Hal Habecker: 42:46

But Lord, help us not to do it.

Unknown: 42:49

Hezekiah, amen to that. Amen to that. So, you know, in my Caring Bridge that you had encouraged me to do, which I'm so glad I did, because I refer to it to this day. You know, it was a way to share updates, but it was also a way for me to just pour out raw emotions. And if anybody reads my Karen bridge is still out there. It's just raw. They just go to Karen bridge and look up Greg master you can, yeah, it's still there. And my very last entry was about how we are blessed, regardless of circumstances that I just put out there a couple weeks ago. But you know, it was just a chronicling of my journey that enabled me to now continue to remember spiritual and emotional reflections that happened during that time,

Vicki Habecker: 43:41

Greg, I think it forgets so awesome that you wrote the entries, not Louise that yes, and that's something you encouraged us with our son, yeah, that the entries need to come from him,

Unknown: 43:55

yeah. And when he did, it was awesome. I loved yours too, but, but his is, like, that's poignant, that's wrong, that's the that's, you know, that's who it is, that's where it's coming from. That's what I want to hear. Yeah,

Vicki Habecker: 44:07

and that's what you did on yours. And they were, they were raw, it was wrong. Were hard to read, right?

Unknown: 44:14

I mean, they're hard to for me to read now, but they're real. It allowed you to process a lot of things. It did. It did allow me to process things along the time. I mean, living life with the regrets I've got. I've got many of them, you know. I mean some people, my father, I remember once saying he really had no regrets in life. I like, how does that happen? Because I got many of them, and I wrote them, you know, so this all brings us up then today, and how I'm still in the process of figuring out what the fruitful labor is and prayerfully and availing myself to God's purpose. One such place is my local church that's got. Had a very active growing cancer support ministry that was founded 14 years ago, and we're putting together a conference for next year for all Collin County Christian churches that are interested in further caring for members of their congregation that have cancer. I just think there's a unique place and a void, to be honest with you, in the church as a whole, for cancer support. I mean, Stephen ministries are wonderful and and cancer kind of feeds into that, obviously, but I believe, you know, nine out of 10 people will be impacted by cancer somehow, some way, you're either going to have it four out of 10, or you are going to be subject to it through a family member or a very close friend.

Hal Habecker: 45:52

90% all four of us right here, that's right, 100%

Unknown: 45:58

of us that that's right in multiple ways, yes, yes. And cancer is so unique. I say, if you've seen one cancer case, you've seen one cancer case, it's not like having a heart attack, all due respect, everybody's had a heart attack. God forbid we have one. But cancer is so unique in that every single case is radically different in its prognosis and its treatment plan and its diagnosis and

Vicki Habecker: 46:25

its family support. I mean, you might have some cancer. Y'all had amazing friends and family support, yes, but what about the person that doesn't

Hal Habecker: 46:35

that's right, but every church ought to have that kind of ministry. I

Unknown: 46:38

well, I think so now, and we're going to see how many churches are interested. I know that they're all obviously supporting their cancer patients. So this is not a commentary that there's no support out there. I wanted your listeners to know that that's how we feel, but we believe there's a gap of being able to more intentionally care for cancer patients, so that nobody goes through this wicked disease alone, alone, meaning without friends, without family, without God. And so that's our that's our vision. That was the vision that the man that I'm working with, you know him, I do that he founded almost 15 years ago now and still alive and doing, doing great. So that's one of the places that I'm glad you're involved in. It Great I AM, too, and I'm pulling Louise along with me and and she's going to exercise her gifts, of which are many, to help the ministry along. And I'm anxious to see what God has for us in this particular season, because I do think there's so many people out there that are suffering with this wicked disease, and they're doing it without the support that could be there if, in fact, people were more in tune, or, you know, inclined whatever, to care for these patients in just further ways that they're doing in

Hal Habecker: 48:10

that so talk about that a little bit more. How would you encourage others as they go through similar experiences? What have you learned? What would you pass on to them? What do you pass on as part of this cancer support ministry?

Unknown: 48:24

Yeah, well, one of the ones I just mentioned Don't, don't go through it alone, you know? And that can be defined many different ways. What what loneliness is. And going through this alone, you're going to feel like you're alone, because your particular diagnosis, prognosis, stage of cancer is going to be very different than somebody else's. It just is. But there are places. There's the Cancer Hope network that I've become part of, that's nationwide that has cancer buddies that will find your you know, find somebody who understands, who empathizes, who has at least a very similar situation that can minister and talk to you, and, most importantly, listen to you.

Vicki Habecker: 49:11

This is what a does. They're your family. The minute you've got somebody that you can relate to cry with scream, with laugh, with 24/7 the rest of your life.

Unknown: 49:26

Yeah, and that's, that's our vision. So don't go through it alone, spiritually, emotionally, physically, you know, allow God to work and share that good work with others along the way. You don't get to the point of expectance. Pray. You might get to the point of embracing it. That's one thing I learned with tinnitus. Remember when I first was diagnosed with the ringing and chronic ringing in your ear, I read something that said, just embrace it. Don't just accept it, but embrace it. And so that's what I attempted to do with my cancer. What I. Attempting to do now with my urostomy pouch that hangs from my side, and not just accept it, actually embrace it as God's provision, God's reminder, etc. It's what

Hal Habecker: 50:13

I call leaning into the pain, leaning into it. Yep, you have to make it yours and Watch God work in it through

Unknown: 50:20

you exactly. You know, many people go through this alone, without advocacy, so finding a healthcare advocate, I mean, the healthcare system is complex, man, and there's many choices, finding somebody who kind of understands the ins and outs of it and can at least guide you. That's a really important thing, that if you don't have that, find one, they're out there that can help you in that process. I found a book written by the the man who founded Stephen ministries, called cancer. Now what? Which walks you A to Z. It's a wonderful book. I wish I would have discovered it when I was going through cancer, but it will. It can be a beautiful patient advocate for you, short chapters, very comprehensive, but short chapters and it, you know, what questions to ask? How do you choose a health system? Well, you know, all those kinds of questions are kind of answered in this book cancer. Now what

Hal Habecker: 51:24

we'll have to include that as a resource that people could get to and find as a part of this podcast. Please do wish

Unknown: 51:31

I would have seen it.

Vicki Habecker: 51:32

What do you call yourself a cancer survivor? What do you call yourself?

Unknown: 51:38

I was reading this guy's name is Tim sorley. I was reading his Caring Bridge along with mine. He posts daily, and he's a pastor, and I forget where it was, he calls himself a cancer continuous. Now he's still living with cancer, and there's a lot of cancer continuous. So he doesn't call himself a survivor. He's obviously not a victim dead, right? Or victim or a victor, right? So I don't have a term for me, Vicki. I really well she has several, and I know how and Vicki have several for me too, but I don't. I don't really have in my I guess. I'm a cancer survivor. I'm two years in remission. I'm not, I'm not clinically considered cured, or what I would say, healed, clinically, okay, by by clinical. Now I consider myself healed, so maybe that's what I am. I've been healed of cancer, however you want to say that, but I don't call myself a survivor. I get that's what I am. Certainly I'm still surviving this side of eternity, but I haven't denoted myself as whatever. Press on what else music. So Vicki's smiling now and and, you know, if you're Christ follower, dust off your favorite worship songs, man. And if they're from today, great if they're from the 80s and 90s, which is where I went. Louise likes to go, you know, find songs that focus on God's truth and his character. Some of the experiential songs that that I would listen to during I couldn't I didn't have the capacity. I could always listen to rich hymns, to songs based on Scripture that focused on God's truth and his character, regardless of how I was feeling.

Vicki Habecker: 53:26

Great for our listeners who don't know Greg, he has a gorgeous voice, and I used to be able to play the piano for him, and you were amazing, because Spirit came through with your voice.

Unknown: 53:44

Those are fun times. They were, you know, draw your family close, obviously. I mean, I'm stating obvious things, but these are things that became underscored and bolded for me during this process. Draw your family close and and don't hold back on expressing your heart. I mean, this raw stuff I put in Caring Bridge. My my sons were one of the first to read it. My wife, Louise, here, was one of the first to read it, you know. And there were, there's just no holds barred, you know, this. These are regrets that I have. These are things that that I want to be better at. These are, you know, this is what God's teaching me. It's good. Don't hold back, document your journey somehow, whether it's Caring Bridge, whether it's journaling, whatever you do, for an out, as Louise suggested, a way to process, but for me, most importantly, a reflection. If God has you to live as Christ, then the fruitful labor that you have will need some reflection, and the reflection is your journey. And I don't remember my journey all the way unless I read about it. How easily we forget, especially me, I forget so easily, but I don't allow myself I go through. My Caring Bridge book per se, and the 39 scriptures. Routinely, you'll find scriptures that resonate with you and document them. I documented the 39 specific scriptures that God had for me during that and I share them with others, cancer patients, people that are struggling with whatever journey. And the last thing I would, I'd say, how and has written in my last Caring Bridge, is understand that you indeed are blessed. In the middle of your cancer journey, you are still blessed regardless of the circumstances that that God has you in. As I wrote in my Caring Bridge, I say it's a little bit Vogue today to say I am blessed. Celebrity, statesman, politician, college and professional athletes, you name it. They want to associate themselves with this popular vernacular. But have you also noticed that many times it's in response to something they've been given, they've been gifted, they've won the health they may have something nice happening to them, but is this real blessing? I you know, I'm not going to say that. It's certainly not being blessed is not dependent on rewarding and happy circumstances, not just based on things we receive. Although there are plenty of examples of God's blessing in terms of life, prosperity, protection and peace in Scripture, but peace, this is where I personally found and continue to find my richest blessings when experiencing the peace of God through Jesus, his son, and secondly, through giving our lives away, as I suggest, Louise has always done this. Well. She has always given her life away. Well, me not as well, but I am learning through her example and this process that I've that I've gone through in a final thought that I would have, how is, there's been a few folks that have said, My goodness, Greg, you are a modern day job. And I bristle when I hear that, because I am nowhere close. There's no way I could fill up 42 chapters. I have a wife that still is walking beside of me, not asking me to curse God. I've got two best friends that are still hanging in there with me through thick and thin, and I have not experienced at all what Job has experienced. I've been given a little taste of what that man experienced, but I'm certainly no modern, modern day job, and my hope is that I can live out the scripture that you just noted, how and that's Second Corinthians, 416, 18. So we don't lose heart. Our outer self is wasting away. Our inner self is being renewed day by day for this light momentary affliction, which is how I look at it. Now, in retrospect, it was a light momentary affliction. Didn't feel like it at the time, but now, as I reflect, is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. That's my journey. That's a comparison.

Hal Habecker: 58:13

What does God have for us on the other side and in the process of experience and hardship that we don't see. We don't look far enough ahead to anticipate what God's going to do. That's right. Well, what a great story. Louise, how do you how would you reflect on this wrap, wrap up our conversation. What's it mean to you? What has it meant to you?

Unknown: 58:39

Well, I was thinking about what you just said and how you asked Greg to what does he call himself? And I think I would say maybe a cancer transformed person, because I think this journey has transformed both of us, brought us closer to each other, just really brought us closer to the Lord, just because we had to. I mean, a lot of what you said kind of made it sound like it was simple, but it wasn't. I mean, it was a day to day, you know, just active journey to believe that what we were reading in the scriptures and what the Lord has told us is true, is true, and to believe in his character, and regardless of what would happen. But I think that's really what I would say, is that it this journey just transformed both of us, and you know now we were responsible for that, and what, what does that mean? Now,

Hal Habecker: 59:38

that's right, that's right. I love it. Vicky. You had any thoughts as we wrap this up and say goodbye to our friends

Vicki Habecker: 59:45

in Bible study this morning, we were talking about the road that we're all on as believers. We are on the path to eternity and to sanctification. We can make that road hard. Yeah. We can make it long. And we were talking about the children wandering in the wilderness. They were on their way to the promised land, but because of some bad decisions and some bad outcomes and situations, the road, the path, got Rocky and rough, and it took longer than maybe that God had anticipated. So your attitude as a wife and as a mother, as a woman made has made your road as difficult as it was. It's made it peaceful,

Unknown: 1:00:38

well. And I think, I mean, like I said before, the roadmap is, you know, I think when we're left our own devices, it's bad, it's gonna be ugly. And so you've got to make sure that your compass is right. And so we just really trusted that what we've been taught and what we know about God is really true.

Hal Habecker: 1:01:01

I want to add this as we close. First of all, I can't thank you Greg and Louise enough and my wife for we've all gone through with as friends, and you've been a great encouragement to

Unknown: 1:01:11

us well. And thank you, Hal for being such a special friend and a confident a mentor all these years, and for your ministry. You know, we believe in your ministry. It is so important finishing well is such an important ministry right now to those of us who need to be challenged to do the things that God has asked us to do in our later seasons in life. So thank you for continuing your journey.

Hal Habecker: 1:01:41

You're welcome. So pray for me. I think of Robert Browning's poem, his great line, grow old along with me. The best is yet to be you are better because of what you're experiencing. And as we wrestle with the implications of aging and press on for God's purposes in our life, as we age, we'll be better, and God will use us greatly. So that's an encouragement to all of us in finishing well ministry. So thanks, Greg and Louise, God bless you, and may He powerfully use you and all of us as we trust him rigorously with our lives. Thanks for listening. God bless you.

Unknown: 1:02:19

You've been listening to the finishing well podcast, let's keep pursuing Jesus together and encourage each other to follow him in our aging years. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts, or you can find us at finishing well ministries.org/podcast, our vision is to change the way we think about our aging Season of Life, equipping you to actively pursue God's calling in your life. May the Lord bless and encourage you and we'll see you next time on the finishing well podcast. You.