Episode S7E06: "Faith During Illness"

"Hope is not destroyed by suffering - it is developed by it." With the certainty of hope that only God instills, Dr. Randy Marshall shares his journey with metastatic prostate cancer.  His story will encourage every listener.

Randy emphasizes the importance of faith, hope, and community, noting how his illness has become a mission field, providing spiritual support to other patients. He discusses the significance of maintaining a positive attitude, focusing on eternal hope, and the role of humor and prayer in coping. Randy also highlights the importance of family support and the discipline of saying no to maintain peace and focus.

Transcript

Narrator: 0:00

Steve today on the finishing well

Randy Marshall: 0:05

podcast, because heaven is the issue. This is a vapor on this earth Time flies. It's brief. It's like sparks that fly upward from a campfire, and then it's gone. It's like a flower that fades. It's gone. And so what you do now for Jesus counts for eternity, and I'm just sending it ahead.

Narrator: 0:24

Welcome to the finishing well podcast where we encourage believers of every age to find meaningful ways to impact their world for the kingdom of God. Our mission is to prepare and encourage every person to live well and to finish well. We pray this podcast will be a source of strength and encouragement as we seek to glorify Christ as we engage him in our aging years. Now, here's your host for finishing well. Hal habecker,

Dr Hal Habecker: 0:49

welcome again to our podcast. I'm here with Randy Marshall, who has been on this before with us. Randy is a great friend, a great encourager. In fact, we did a podcast about friendship A while back, didn't we? We did there is nothing better than a friend.

Randy Marshall: 1:06

You and I proved that a friend

Dr Hal Habecker: 1:09

loves at all times, and a brother who is a friend is born for adversity. I mean, we go through life together. It's the second essential for finishing well, we need friends. We connect. But today we're going to talk about not only a friendship, but even more so, there are all kinds of challenges in life, as James says in James one count it all joy when you encounter various trials. You've encountered a deep trial in your life, and I want to talk about it today, and what gives you hope in the midst of your trial? So just give us a little background. Randy, what are you being challenged with? And tell us your story.

Randy Marshall: 1:50

Well, first of all, this is the first time I've ever shared this story publicly or anyplace else. I haven't written about it and I haven't talked about it, which proves that we really are friends. Because I want to share this story for the first time, because I think it will give hope to other people as they go through inevitably, a process of trial or sometimes suffering. You know, I think every Christian in life faces diagnosis that they didn't expect a loss they can't fix. They have a future that's uncertain, and even then the shadow of death that comes for all of us. And I think that when it comes, it really does test what you believe, pure and simple. And I remember Tim Keller, who was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Then you have Tony Evans, who lost Eunice. And they both came to the same conclusion they had to really believe what they were teaching and preaching. They counsel people a lot, but do I really grasp the true sense of life in Christ here. And then to live is Christ, but to die is gain. It's easy

Dr Hal Habecker: 3:07

to say that for me to live is Christ, to die is gain. It comes off almost flippantly, but it's very profound. If you drill down

Randy Marshall: 3:14

into those words, it does. And when the oncologist tells you, and I'll get to my story in just a second, that you probably have one year to live, that will get your attention. And yet it tests the fact primarily that as you cross through a very thin veil and you get to the other side, that it's very real, and that heaven is a place and Jesus is the person. And you either believe that or you don't. It comes down to the nubbies on that. And so what I had to come to conclusion with in my story, which started about seven and a half years ago, when I diagnosed with a high PSA off the charts at 25 and it's one to four, which is normal. I was told that the chances that I had prostate cancer were extremely strong. And of course, they were correct. Through a process of evaluation, decided to have the prostate removed. They thought they got it all. They did not. The Gleason score was still at nine, and so they knew it had escaped to the lymph nodes when the doctor told me that, he said, breaks my heart to tell you this. Now, he was an old German I didn't think anything broke his heart, but he was very sympathetic, but I had a strange, eerie peace about that. And I said, Well, we'll deal with that. And it was interesting that a philosophy came then a thought, and it has maintained itself through these years, and it went something like this, I'm to be responsible. I've been given the mind of Christ, and I'm to do the best I can. Do the research, find out what the options are. Are. I'm not just to say, que sera sera and let it go and say, Well, God will just take care of me. I needed to do some work and figure out what I needed to do next. But then I believe that I should relax in that, because the future is fixed. I'm to walk in good works set before me. There wasn't an accident involved in this. God knew from the beginning of time and my life that this would be exactly where I should be. Came out of the blue, unannounced. Wasn't serendipity. It was a gift, in fact, as I've come to believe, it really is. And so the relaxed part in that was my faith, and to me, it was the best combination. How between my responsibility of do the research, do the best you can make a choice, pray it through, and then relax by faith, because there's a sovereign God who is not only sovereign over things, but providential means. He cared for me individually through this entire process, from seven half years as the PSA, went from 25 to nine after the operation to remove the prostate to then soaring to 55 the oncologist said you need to see another oncologist, and that oncologist said you have stage four. It is metastasized to the bone. It's different than bone cancer, but still serious, and that we need to put you on a new therapy. And so that pilgrimage began, and I'm still undergoing that with a clinical trial even today, and because the hormone treatment has not worked recently, and so I have gone to a more aggressive form of therapy that is basically targeted chemotherapy, which has less side effects, they say. And I agree with that, having gone through two or three rounds of that now than the normal chemotherapy route, that's where I stand. So it's been an interesting adventure in many, many ways. But as far as suffering, I'm surrounded by suffering. I see people that are suffering when I take the infusions, they're suffering, and yet, it's really been interesting how God has given me a piece about the fact that this is a calling, and I really believe that I'm not trying to be super saiyan here or say something spiritual. I've seen it move up the list from Oh, we have to do this to really seeing it as a mission field, because these folks are on the last Roundup, the people that are going through these clinical trials, and not just prostate cancer, we're talking about pancreatic lung cancer. These people are sick people,

Dr Hal Habecker: 7:53

so you're with them in the clinic. When you get your procedures,

Randy Marshall: 7:56

that's exactly right. And it's 10 hours procedure every three weeks, and so I have a lot of time to be able as the medicine goes through my veins and hopefully attacks the cancer cells and leaves the good cells unattacked, I have an opportunity, because there's three or four Christian nurses there that we have a conspiracy, and we begin to whisper a little bit louder than normal, the things of Jesus and other people are leaning in, because they are a captive audience, to say the least, and very interested in things of eternity.

Dr Hal Habecker: 8:35

It's like Dallas Willard and the divine conspiracy. I haven't read the book. It happens all your life, particularly, it's crucial events.

Randy Marshall: 8:44

I've always prayed for a long time that God would actually bring a person in my life, and that person would say, you know, I'd like to know what the hope is within you. Can you tell me about that? Hope never has happened, not one time, but it did.

Dr Hal Habecker: 8:59

It did. So tell us about that.

Randy Marshall: 9:00

Okay, you know, I get a call from the clinic, and this is a clinic in Las Colinas. It's a big clinic. They have about 300 patients over there, and the girl on the line, whom I know, said, You brought something to the clinic. There's a sense about you, there's a light heartedness. There's a joy about you. You laugh, you we we laugh as a staff. You've given books out. You give give us nicknames. There's something about you we want to know about, and we'd like for you to speak. It's a brand new thing we're going to do, and you're going to be the first, or one of the first, to give your story and tell us why you tick the way you do. And so I went, Okay, so somebody maybe noticed that there's a Jesus in me that loves the Jesus in some people. And let's go. And so I did that 10 days, two. Weeks ago, and it went extraordinarily well. I mean, we had Muslims there, doctors, there were nurses, front office, technology, people. It was a packed deal. And the Lord really met us there. And so we had Hindu people there, we had Muslims there, we had Christians there, as one of them said, you're going to have the big three there, and so it went extremely well. And my last part of the message I gave them, I said, you know, I respect you nurses and I respect doctors. You guys are brilliant, well educated. You mean, well, you're kind hearted people, but I'm going to throw my lot in with a great physician. I said, you know, this physician healed the leper, healed the blind man, raised a man from the dead, raised a couple of them from the dead, and as great as his healing was, physically, he's the only person that can heal the soul, and I'm going to go with him. We had a time to pray together, and people have asked me a couple of questions since then about my faith and more to come. So it's remarkable. Randy, it was a remarkable opportunity. I took it very seriously, prayed a lot about it, and one knee said to the other, let's shake. But I still decided to see this as a platform, which I had never Honestly, how ever seen this as a ministry platform, a clinic where most people are very self absorbed, and admittedly and understandably so they're hurting, and it's tough to be outward and aggressively extrovert when you're hurting that much. But I decided, you know, this is going to take a lot of my time. Why not? Let's go for it.

Dr Hal Habecker: 11:55

So I'm intrigued. You mentioned there's a calling involved in this illness that you sense I haven't thought about that. I mean, there are unique callings that God gives us, and maybe this is one of them.

Randy Marshall: 12:10

I think it is because I think all of the people that are in this clinic and the people I've seen along this path, and by the way, there's a brotherhood of cancer that I've seen, we talked about community early on and a friendship that's developed. Well, I think friends are really developed many times out of a task or common interest. But people that have had cancer or are having cancer, are rising up. I know you went through the bout with that early on and came over and we talked about that. So people that are struggling with that are wanting hope for me, so it's really an open door to a mission field. And so I think that's why it's I see it as a calling. And when the scripture says it's Christ in you, which is the hope of glory, I think what everybody's looking for is hope. They're at the clinic. They want hope. My cancer, brothers, they want hope. And so I'm able to pray with them. I'm able to talk with them about the hope in you, which is with which is Jesus. And two passages that come to my mind, if I can say them quickly, please, please. One is, we've got time. Okay, good. First Peter three has really ministered to me that the glorious hope that we have blessed is the Lord and Father, Jesus Christ, who caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Then it jumps down to verse six in this, this hope you greatly rejoice, even though, now for a little while, since it is necessary that phrase catches me, since it is necessary, you have been distressed by various trials you mentioned earlier, James one. And that's true, not if you but when you encounter various trials. And this is a trial but, but everybody's going to have them. And so that passage along with Romans five, and you're very familiar with Romans five, where it gives the string there that you can exalt in suffering. Can you kidding me? You can exalt in it? Well, I found that actually to be true, you can. You can rejoice in suffering because it produces something. It's not whimsical, and that like this, it's necessary to prove the faith that it says that there's a hope that does not disappoint in Romans five, and this hope comes when you exalt with the suffering that leads to perseverance, that leads to character, that leads to the hope that does not disappoint, and that's what I want. And to be honest with you, I'm just a normal guy, but I have a hope that doesn't disappoint. I have not felt depressed one time. I haven't felt. Woe is me. One time, I admittedly have felt pretty good physically. Maybe I'd crumble if you know I had bone pain that felt like a vice grip, I don't know, but I haven't been subjected to that. I've gone through pretty strong nausea, strong fatigue through these treatments, but at the same time, there's been a buoying up. There's, I don't know how to even describe it. Maybe that's why it's supernatural, but it's carried me along. And Romans five has been a go to First Peter. Chapter One has been but the verse that has kept me stable through this time has been a verse. We all know you've been bought with a price, you're not your own. And I say, Well, Lord, if, if I've been bought with a price, purchased by the blood of the Savior, and I'm not my own. You got this body. You own this body, and you can do anything to this body you want to it's yours. Overarching all of this, these are simply words. If I did not really believe that there is such a thing as heaven, I think I would despair there is an end. I know how the story ends, and I really grasp and teach now every chance I can't on heaven, because heaven is the issue. This is a vapor on this earth. Time flies. It's brief. It's like sparks that fly upward from a campfire, and then it's gone. It's like a flower that fades. It's gone. And so what you do now for Jesus counts for eternity, and I'm just sending it ahead, and I realized that I'm, you know, I'm on the last turn, and I'm 78 in two weeks, I'll be 79 and I don't have much time left. What I really want, as CS Lewis said, It's not the fact you're going to die, it's the kind of death you're going to experience. And so far, the grace of God has sustained me. That's all I can tell you. Fascinating story.

Dr Hal Habecker: 17:06

It's a gut it's a test. Yeah, I think what happens in our lives is, I mean, trial by fire, in a sense, it proves something. Another aspect of this I want you to talk about. How has your family been involved with this? How did you include them? Where are they, and how does that process work?

Randy Marshall: 17:29

It's interesting, too. A great question. I think that trials like this, they're not all fun and games. There's a sobriety about it. I do think you have to surround yourself by fun people. I think you have to keep your sense of humor. I really think that you avoid the negative, down in the dumps, curmudgeon, Woe is me. That's right. And I think that the scripture talks about humor. There's a laughter that cures the bones. Well, that bone can't, you know, it's gone to the bone now, and I'm thinking, I don't know that. Take that literally, but I can tell you, there's healing and humor, and I laugh a lot now, probably more than I ever have before, and I'm not quite sure why. If there's weeping and gnashing of teeth on judgment day and there's a casting into the outer darkness, and there is, there's that sense of of weeping. The opposite of that, I think, is to have a sense of levity. One of the things that's helped me a lot, and we talk about it with Kathy, we talk my wife, talk about it with our kids, is that my name is written in the book of life. And the reason I know I'm going to heaven is because it's written there in indelible ink. It's the only reason I'm going to heaven. And there is a sense in which I need a joyful attitude. I need a sense of God give me joy because it is my strength. Through this Nehemiah says, there's also a sense in which I need to be reminded all the time of that passage in Luke 10, where the disciples come back, and they are ecstatic because they saw Satan falling like lightning from the sky, and Jesus had given them all this power. But Jesus said, nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, but rejoice that your names are written in the book of life. Because rejoice, Rejoice, rejoice, Skip, run with hilarity is literally what it means that your names are written in the book of life. And when cancer gets to be overwhelming, we have this thing. Kathy and I, our names are written in the book of life. You're beautiful and you're going to heaven. You know, that's right, and there's a sense in which it restores us. And let me tell you what's helped us more than anything else. Been going through the book of Philippians lately. And here's the thing, this world is unstable. Cancer is unstable. It's unpredictable. But I can tell you what, like a ship has a stabilizer and a plane has a stabilizer in turbulence. I. What I've discovered is that the apostle Paul, for example, and all the writers really the New Testament, they say we're going to give you a stabilizer for the turbulence in this world, the trials, the suffering that come. And if you notice that Paul in prison when he writes Romans and the epistles, prison epistles, he always focuses on the big truth. Always the big truth. He talks about heaven, he talks about the book of life, he talks about the community, he talks about the big issues. You're saved, you're going to heaven. And he says, basically there, that the stabilizer is the big truth that will always stabilize the small conflict or the small turbulence. And so he focuses on that. I mean, he's got a prison sentence and a death calling, perhaps over his head. And still, he writes about contentment, and he writes about the bigger picture. And so we talk at length as a family about the bigger picture. We talk a lot about heaven. Now, what's it going to be like? We study it, we talk about it. I teach it and bring it home, because that's really the end game. And this is simply a process. And he's called me to a different mission field, and that's one with cancer, and I'm not identified by cancer. It's turbulent, but it I have a stabilizer, and the external stable, unstable condition is dwarfed by the internal stabilizer of Jesus. And I mean that he really does stabilize me.

Dr Hal Habecker: 21:35

That's superb. Thank you, Randy.

Randy Marshall: 21:37

Yep, I'll tell you a couple other things. As long as I got motor mouth here, there's a holy moderation that takes place. You either get really high or really low, good scan, and everything's up. Then, you know, you have anxiety about scans. I don't have anxiety about scans. You know, you just keep moving. And as you would say to me many, many times, how you doing, how I'm blowing and going and and, you know, that's what, that's the deal. We got work to do. We do. We got a great commission out there that's a big truth, or to create disciples. And we're to be men of God that that actually think there's a bigger issue than this stupid cancer. Okay, all right. I mean, I don't mean to minimize it. And people that are going through it, I hurt for them, and we talk and we pray, and I'm with them. I'm with them hours, for crying out loud, and so I hear their stories, and I talk to them about it, and they want to talk to people that care. They want somebody to listen to them. They're lonely people. And so I don't minimize the struggle, nor the trial, but there's a bigger truth here involved, and they don't necessarily know it, and they're down in the tules, they're down in the weeds, and they need to rise up. But there's a holy moderation. Because remember when Jesus said, Don't rejoice in this. You cast out demons. Today, tomorrow, you may not cast out demons. Well, that's true. They didn't. They didn't cast out a demon. So don't get too high. Don't get too low. There's a holy moderation that this is not your identity, and this simply something that I'm taking you through, and I'm giving this to you. You be responsible. But let me tell you something, bud, you're not going to die one minute too soon or one minute too late. Your days are numbered. I want you to teach me to number my days. That's right, but I have an appointment with death appointment, and therefore I'm refined. As Howard Hendricks used to say, every man's immortal until his time. And it's really, absolutely true. It is if he's got good work set before me, just walk. Just keep on walking. This is a

Dr Hal Habecker: 23:49

calling that God has for us as we understand the limits of our days. That's true,

Randy Marshall: 23:55

one of the things I think I have to guard. And it goes back to this negative thinking, or no sense of humor, or people that are down in the dumps. Woe is me, as you say, one of the things that I have to keep in mind is the thoughts. My thoughts determine my emotions. My thoughts determine my emotions. And when I read Philippians four, for example, and Paul says, think on these things. Whatsoever is lovely, whatsoever, pure, good report. When I think about those things, there's something that happens to me. He says in that passage in Philippians four, you want to be peaceful. I'll tell you how to be peaceful. First of all, Be anxious for nothing, but by prayer with thanksgiving. Let your requests be known to God, and the peace of God will guard your heart and mind in Christ, Jesus. So it's prayerful Thanksgiving. It's this holy moderation thing that I think keeps you stable. But the other part about that is he says, think on these things our mind matters. And I was reading something the other day on. Ever thought about this that when you think about right things, it leads to thanking him about the hard things. And if I were to give one theme about our time today, it'd be something like this, hope is not destroyed by suffering. Hope is not destroyed by suffering. Hope is developed by it. Talk more about that. I don't think that you can have a sufficient hope. Similar what Romans five says you can't have significant hope. It's, it's much more of a wishful thinking. It's much more of a hope. I'm all right. It's much more of an unstable kind of, you know, I hope I get a bike for Christmas kind of thing. Hope that does not disappoint never does because of the love of Christ that shed abroad in your heart it says later, is because I can't develop hope without the suffering to explain it, I'd have to be the fourth member of the Trinity. I really don't know how that works. I just know it does, and I've sensed that I have a greater hope for heaven, hope for people, hope for my ministry, hope for rewards in heaven than I ever had. How before I had this cancer, and I've gone through this, and it has proven to be character building for me. One of the reasons, if I can be really blunt, is the fact that if the prostate is gone and your PSA, because of all this medicine, is really down, I can focus on certain things without the other factor of lust entering my mind to be drawing me off the path, because if the if there's high testosterone, it creates a lot of dilemma. And somebody asked me the other day, said, You know, when does lust ever leave you as a man? I said, well, it doesn't leave you at 78 I can tell you that for sure. But this has really guided me into a focus that's much more pinpointed now, and there's something that's shut down about that, yes, I lost after certain things, but not to the point where I forget everything else, you know, and I lose my mind and I go through temporary insanity. It's like

Dr Hal Habecker: 27:10

Second Corinthians four. Though our outer man is decaying, we're developing an eternal perspective, and your hope is fixed on eternal things and not temporal things. That's exactly right.

Randy Marshall: 27:23

Paul would say no, that's exactly right. One of the things that has helped me a lot is to develop what I call a discipline of irresponsibility.

Dr Hal Habecker: 27:34

That's a weird discipline of irresponsibility.

Randy Marshall: 27:38

Yes, because, well, cancer has narrowed my focus on things that are important, and cancer has allowed me to put blinders on to say no much more easily. And I used to be able to say, these are my priorities, or these are messages I give, and I have 10 of them. I don't have 10 messages and I don't have a plethora of callings. I'm called to follow Christ. Out of that comes what I'm to do and and so my discipline of irresponsibility is simply the fact that I need to say no. They say no more often that I need to be irresponsible, which is basically saying no, and I say that tongue in cheek on irresponsible,

Dr Hal Habecker: 28:25

but that's being more responsible,

Randy Marshall: 28:27

isn't it? That's exactly right, and it moves the opposite direction. And what I've discovered is I can be overwhelmed simply because I have these swirling ministry ideas. And then somebody comes in and says, Oh, by the way, we think we own your body. We want you at the clinic all these times and vampire city, we want to take 19 vials of blood every week. And by the way, you need to do this to follow up, because the sponsor of this clinical trial really needs to see all kinds of stuff and monitor you. And so you're living over in Las Colinas, and now I add that to what I was presently doing, I'm going daunting. No Stop. Say no, you don't have to be responsible for that. Cut back, get margin, and be much more at peace, because your life is not so crowded,

Dr Hal Habecker: 29:19

you know, just thought, and then I want to go to your you mentioned a book here. Illness leads to a discipline of being more focused in life. It does now, in general, I don't think we as believers spend enough time in the Word listening to God. I don't mean studying it. I don't mean preaching it or whatever, but do we listen to the voice of God in our lives? We live in a world that's so distracted, and so now you're distracted by cancer, you might be distracted by media, you might be distracted by your work, your problems, whatever. So we live in a world of distractions where the devil tries to get at us, but illness. It is a like you just said, a discipline of your it focuses you in a different way. And the word is your energy, hope in God, I mean the verses you've mentioned, what you're reading, etc.

Randy Marshall: 30:13

Well, there is a sense in which, when somebody says you won't get out of this alive, none of us do, but we can go merrily along, so to speak, and not realize that there is an end point there. And you continue to say, you know, like this watch I have right now is a terrible indicator of time, isn't it, because it goes round and round and round and round. So on my desk, because of this cancer situation, I put a an hourglass, and every morning I turn it over, which is a better indication of time that the sands are running out.

Dr Hal Habecker: 30:51

Teach me to number my day.

Randy Marshall: 30:53

That's it. So it's a visual aid for me to know that I'm to live today and take no thought for tomorrow. I'm to plan. But the fact is, this is the day I've been given, and I'm rejoicing in this day. And that's a command, what has defined me, as you would say, to focus certain scripture now comes alive where it didn't before, the passage in John 14, where he says, Let not your heart be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in Me, for I've gone to prepare a place for you, and he goes through several ways that you quieten the troubled heart. But what got me was that's a command, don't let your heart be troubled. It's not a suggestion. And believer, you don't let have to let your heart be troubled. It starts with belief in my father and then belief in me, and so, oh, okay, well, that's pretty clear, but you mentioned something that I found to be absolutely correct, and you're blowing and going of earlier times when you want to win the world in 20 Minutes. What I found was I didn't sit to listen to the voice of God. I set to learn another message I needed to give, or I would read something that, oh, there's a great quote. Developing a new strategy, yeah, a plan, vision strategy, 90 day plan. I was all into that. Now what I'm doing is sitting a lot and listening a lot could be a nudge. Could be nothing that day could be I mean, this pretty strong impression here, and the passage that says, My sheep hear my voice and I know them, is either true or it isn't my sheep. Jesus says, hear my voice and I know them. Well, okay, I'm going to ask you, what do you want me to know? What do you want me to know, and what do you want me to do about it? I ask that question a lot now and then I wait, and it is an incredibly helpful thing for peace to come. I'll tell you another thing I've done for peace is the Psalms. Yeah, they're amazing. They're amazing. And when I think there's 40% of all the psalms are lament Psalms, it's how to deal with grieving with the Clarion cry of all of those psalms that basically says, How long Lord? How long Psalm 13? How long will it be before you rescue me? How long will my enemies triumph over me? How long O Lord, and the lament of the heart is, what's the gap here between my present reality that I've got to have poison shooting through my veins for eight to 10 hours and not feel particularly whoopish After that, and nausea that comes over me and fatigue that comes over me. I never took naps before, and now I take naps and all that, and I don't want to eat much dinner now, and I don't, pretty much bypass lunch. Okay, that's fine. But what is it? What is the gap? The gap is, here's the present reality. I don't feel like heaven, and here's the promise, right here, I want you, please. I beg of you to close the gap. I lament, close the gap. I'm crying out my real problem. And let me, let me read one statement when I was studying about lamentations, and then lament Psalms. Tell us about this book.

Dr Hal Habecker: 34:29

What is it that you're reading out of clothe, the power from a high, redemptive suffering? That is

Randy Marshall: 34:35

a chapter out of the book. It's the chapter is called a familiar stranger. It's about the Holy Spirit and suffering. It's about the Holy Spirit and suffering. There's a section in there about how to suffer and how the Holy Spirit leads you and gives you grace in the midst of suffering. Part of that is, and this is a section that you're referring to, that I brought in today. Catch this line. Pray Exactly. Like you think you're not allowed to pray. Pray exactly like you think you aren't allowed to and pray that long enough and slow enough to craft the language of your current pain and future longing. That is called lament. I'll never forget. Susanna Wesley, would you have 19 kids? Susannah Wesley, John Wesley, Charles Wesley, Susanna was asked, Do you have a favorite child? She said, Yes, I do. They were surprised by that answer. Who's your favorite child, the one that's hurting, confused and led astray. I thought, What a great answer. What a great answer. The one that's confused hurting and led astray, that's my favorite child at the moment. Well, I think Lord does give you a certain amount of grace that's more than anybody else. And I pray for grace for Kathy, because I've been given a lot of grace in this trial, and it not necessarily trickles down to Kathy. So I'm praying for grace for her a lot, because I've got a lot of it. It's sufficient for me, but she might be hurting and wanting to know what I'm going to do without a guy around here. And you know that kind of thing. I want to

Dr Hal Habecker: 36:16

add one more thing before we finish our this podcast. You know, our seven essentials, and you you have led a ministry in your church. Yes, a watermark on older folks. I mean being renewed about life. I'm at the conviction that we don't talk enough about the end of life issues, and they may happen at any age, you know, when you're young or old, but I think God wants us to talk about that. They're all there in Scripture. They're all there in the Proverbs. They're all there in the Psalms. Why is it we don't like to talk about death? I remember reading Ernest Becker's book and the denial of death, he wrote back in 1961 I think, you know, we don't like that. I mean, it's right in your face, and we need to do it as a church. We need to celebrate life and encourage people who are going through hard times, and we need to have a brotherhood with us right to the very end.

Randy Marshall: 37:11

There's no question about it. I think we have a fear of mortality. I don't think we like to talk about death. I think even among Christians, it's interesting when I ask the question, How often do you think about eternity? Every day? How much time do you spend thinking about eternity? And there is this deer in the headlight. Look, it's like what think about eternity? Not much. And these are mature believers, and I think we're so involved in the world and so involved in what's in front of us that oftentimes we don't give much time at all to thinking about the future. It's all throughout the Scripture. What is the statement? And I'll get it wrong. You can help me. If you think about heaven, you get Earth thrown in. If you think about Earth, you get neither one something like that. And really it's true, that old statement, you're so heavenly minded or no earthly good is a crock. It's just not true. I have to be heavenly minded for me to be any good on Earth right now, because the clock is ticking and I do number my days. But your manual that you gave us the seven essentials, it has motivated me to button up some issues that I have too phone numbers for Kathy, who to call talking about life insurance. I spoke, as you know, the life insurance industry for over two decades. And the reason, many times life insurance people are rejected is because they're going to talk about death, and nobody wants to talk about death, and there's a tremendous fear of what happens really beyond and for a lot of great theologians, even they're kind of freaked out about death. And I'm not. I have an assurance of exactly where I'm going, and Jesus blood covers me, and yet, at the same time, I still have a calling, I still have a ministry, and I'm still want to work hard and run the race. If I can end this man, I don't sure I wrapping it up with a verse that just I should tattoo this on my my heart, if I could. But this verse has really meant a lot to me. It's Luke chapter one, verse, 79 I'd forgotten Luke had that many verses, frankly, but it did. I thought it was a misprint. Luke 179, says, Through the heartfelt mercies of our God, God's sunrise will break in upon us, shining on those in the darkness, those sitting in the shadow of death, then show us the way, one foot at a time, down the path of peace. That's from Zechariah, the Father John the Baptist, reminding us that God will. Guide us into His peace, and even in the shadows of death, He will show us the way, one foot at a time, down the path of peace. And all I could say is, believers, just keep walking.

Dr Hal Habecker: 40:13

That's incredible. I've forgotten that Zechariah said that incredible verse, yeah, Randy, I can't thank you enough. Thank you for the

Randy Marshall: 40:22

opportunity to share my story. I appreciate

Dr Hal Habecker: 40:25

it a lot. Well, as we all know, we need friends. Thanks for being my friend. I want to be your friend, your journey of life, wherever it takes us, and I think that's what God calls us to be about. I close with this, John 15. It's the vine story in John 1515. Jesus says, I've called you friends because I've told you everything in my heart. So you apply that verse to your this season of life for you, this season of life for me, this season of life for all of us, whenever it is. And I think the value of friendships is really sharing what's the crucible of our lives and what God is doing and giving us

Randy Marshall: 41:07

hope well to share in my closing about how good of friends we are, I realize how this cancer saga will, in fact, end most likely, and that's Fine. God has His ways, His timing and his purpose, but there is one man sitting across from me that I've asked to conduct my funeral, and that would be you. And so you graciously agreed to do that. And so I can't wait for people to see what you're going to say, and you're going to have to make up a lot of stuff. I know that, but please, you know, be easy on me, buddy. Of course, who knows?

Dr Hal Habecker: 41:43

I may precede you. You may have to do mine. We never know.

Randy Marshall: 41:46

We never know. Day is a gift that. Well, okay, you turn that table on me pretty fast there. But anyway, that's what kind of good friends we are, and

Dr Hal Habecker: 41:54

so, so I'll close with this. I love the benediction in number six, The Lord bless you and keep you, for is what all his appointed days are for you. The Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you and your family. The Lord lift up His countenance in you on give you peace, which is what you've talked about here. Selah, the Lord, bless you and thanks for listening.

Narrator: 42:19

You've been listening to the finishing well podcast, let's keep pursuing Jesus together and encourage each other to follow him in our aging years. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts, or you can find us at finishing well ministries.org/podcast, our vision is to change the way we think about our aging Season of Life, equipping you to actively pursue God's calling in your life. May the Lord bless and encourage you, and we'll see you next time on the finishing well podcast. You.